1 penny George IV 1827

[bart]

I have a question about this coin.

Some time I found this coin in a junk box. As you can see it's in junk box condition. As I didn't have this type I bought it and paid 1 euro for it.
To my surprise it seems to be a scarce coin when I look at the catalog values in Spink or Krause for this coin.
Why is this year so expensive? Were all of those coins handed in? Or were these almost not put into circulation? With a mintage of 1,452,000 it's not normal Krause gives a value of 250 $ in F condition (1825 has a mintage of about 1 million and a catalog value of 14 $ in fine)
Does someone know what happened with these coins? Were they lost in a shipwreck?

On the other hand: is my coin a lucky find (even in this deplorable condition)? I don't have the impression the date has been altered.
I await your comments.

Bart

[Figleaf]

Maybe you'll still have to plug some holes in teeth before you can retire. Obviously, the official figures don't match the actual amount of coins struck with the date 1827. This happens more often. Reasons may be:

• coins produced in year X were dated X+1 or X-1
• coins were produced, but not issued and eventually remelted. This may have happened here. Tests with bronze coins in 1826 could have been motivated by a rising copper price.
• coins with a frozen year, not all years are included in the stats
• fiscal years not equal to calendar years
• stats for some months were lost, cataloguers either didn't take notice or (even worse) extrapolated
• errors in the stats
• misread or misinterpreted stats

Tony Clayton's site puts the retail price at £125, while KM says $250, both for Fine. However, I would grade yours below Fine. These grades are hard to sell.

Peter

[UK Decimal +]

I have marked my book 'Australia' meaning that it was probably a 'colonial issue' although I haven't noted where that information came from.   If I happen to find the source, I will add the information here.

Bill.

[UK Decimal +]

The inforamtion came from Tony Clayton's site, see http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/penny.html.

Bill.

[Figleaf]

That may explain why they look so bad today, but not why they are scarce today, unless a shipment disappeared.

Peter

[UK Decimal +]

A further question on this.   In Britain it would have been demonetised at the end of 1869 as it is copper, but would this have applied in 'the colonies'?   This question also applies to other denominations.

Bill.

[bart]

Thanks for the insight!

So, I can assume that:
- someone had a problem with counting
- a shipment could be lost somewhere during a monsoon
- those copper pennies were turned into the Australian electrical system

Maybe you'll still have to plug some holes in teeth before you can retire. Tony Clayton's site puts the retail price at £125, while KM says $250, both for Fine. However, I would grade yours below Fine. These grades are hard to sell.

I didn't count on this coin to retire.  I'll first make many people very happy working their teeth. 

I grade my coin as a VG- with a value of 1 euro (that's what I paid for it). As I am not going to sell it (I didn't sell a single coin of my collection yet), the question of value is only theoretical.
For me it is important to have found a special coin, even if it is in a lower grade. As I am focused on circulating coins, this one is perfect: I can assure it circulated!

Bart

[translateltd]

A further question on this.   In Britain it would have been demonetised at the end of 1869 as it is copper, but would this have applied in 'the colonies'?   This question also applies to other denominations.

Quote from Allan Sutherland's "Numismatic History of New Zealand" (1941):

1870: Coinage Act, Great Britain, passed, but not applicable to British Colonies until the issue of local Proclamations.
1876: British Proclamation 1869 decrying copper tokens [sic] extended to British Colonies, subject to the issue of local Proclamations, but no action taken in New Zealand. Copper tokens continued to circulate. Unsuccessful efforts made to retire demonetised British copper coins and New Zealand tokens.

That would indicate that the pre-1860 coppers were still being used in NZ, at least, until after 1876.  The private tradesmen's tokens that were issued here between 1857 and 1881 are in a mixture of sizes, some being the same as pre-1860 copper pennies (and halves), some the same as post-1860 bronze pennies and halves.  Sutherland also notes that a plentiful supply of British coins was available for the Colonies for the first time in 1881, which was when our last "copper" (bronze??) tokens were produced.  Smaller amounts of British bronze had been imported in between times, but obviously not enough.

[azda]

I believe that the 1827 Penny was made only for Australia, the theory goes that the ship carrying the coins sank, this is the reason why the coin is very rare and you virtually NEVER see any above GVF or better because not many of them survived and what did was obviously water damaged and corroded etc

Regardless how poor it is, in 10-20 years your 1 euro investment might be worth 1000 euros or more. A few of the 1827s were left in the UK, one sold on a dealers website, it was probably the only UNC left, quite stunning and sold to an American buyer for 14,000 GBP