Author Topic: Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ? oddity  (Read 3621 times)

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Offline a3v1

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Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ? oddity
« on: July 23, 2007, 12:41:28 PM »
The French engravers at MdP obviously have made a mistake when preparing the Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ?.
These two coins are having the rare feature of incuse mintmarks and that's where the French went "off the rails", resulting in an inversed (mirrored) chief engraver's mark on both coins.
Attached are two drawings.
The first drawing shows the chief engraver's mark and the mintmark as are found on all French coins since 2004, and also are found on Luxembourgish 2007 coins up to 50 cents.
The second drawing shows the chief engraver's mark as found on the Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ?.
An unusual oddity! Do I hear anybody say that collecting Eurocoins can't be interesting?
Regards,
a3v1

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Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

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Luxembourg 2007 ?1 and ?2 oddity.
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2007, 01:08:55 PM »
A3v1,it seems very odd that the French Mint is now striking the Luxembourgish Euro coins these days.

That error privy mark will have to be reported for listing in Krause.

Aidan.

Offline a3v1

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Re: Luxembourg 2007 ?1 and ?2 oddity.
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2007, 01:37:49 PM »
A3v1, it seems very odd that the French Mint is now striking the Luxembourgish Euro coins these days.
Aidan, the fact that the French now are minting the Luxembourgisch Euro coins has been known since early this year. I reported it in another topic, see
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/index.php/topic,164.0
 
What amazes me most is that the French went "off the rails" after the Dutch and the Fins, who earlier have minted these coins, didn't have a problem at all with the incuse mintmark and privy mark.
Regards,
a3v1
Over half a century of experience as a coin collector.
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Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

BC Numismatics

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Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ? oddity
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2007, 01:57:35 PM »
A3v1,I can guess that you will be checking the Luxembourgish Euro coins that you get in change for this error privy mark.

Aidan.

Offline common sense

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Re: Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ? oddity
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2007, 03:56:29 PM »
A3v1,I can guess that you will be checking the Luxembourgish Euro coins that you get in change for this error privy mark.

Aidan.

Aidan, :)

I think (I know ;D) that A3v1 the coins already has  ;) Not got in change, but new, uncirculated  ;) And, allright, you can ask A3v1 to place a photo here, so you can see it yourself too.

Rgrds,
how to lose your sense: do everything you want unprincipled and think you're the best.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ? oddity
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2007, 11:41:45 PM »
If I understand you correctly (not sure I did), the engraver's mark is incuse on the Luxembourg 1 and 2 euros (but in relief on the French coins) as was the intention. However, in the process, the engraver's mark was mirrored along the vertical axis.

If so, I can speculate on how this happened. In the process of producing a modern die are several stages in which the design is mirrored. If you want to produce an incuse variety, all you need to do is start from a French sign in relief somewhere along the production chain and skip one stage in the production chain. This will yield an incuse, but mirrored sign. Mirroring the sign back again is not difficult with a modern reduction machine, but apparently, this was overlooked for the engraver's sign.

Anyway, as you say, there's no reason why a euro coin (or any coin) should by definition be uninteresting...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline a3v1

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Re: Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ? oddity
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 09:16:27 AM »
Another and more thorough examination of the coins learns that the mintmark, too, has been mirrored.
But, unlike the hunting horn which was mirrored along its vertical axis, the cornucopia is mirrored along its length-axis, thus more or less a horizontal axis.
Regards,
a3v1
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 09:22:05 AM by a3v1 »
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Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

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Luxembourgish 2007 ?1 and ?2 coins.
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2007, 11:50:16 AM »
A3v1,do you know whose privy marks they are? I know that the Cornucopia mark is that of the French Mint,& the other one is of either the Mintmaster or the Chief Engraver.

Aidan.

Offline a3v1

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Re: Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ? oddity
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2007, 01:04:17 PM »
@ Aidan,
The Privy mark is the chief engraver's mark. His name is Hubert Larivi?re. He has chosen this particular privy mark for obvious reasons.
The hunting horn is referring to St. Hubert, the Patron of all hunters.
Within the horn waves and the shape of a fish are seen. This is referring to his family name. Larivi?re  translates into English as the river.
Regards,
a3v1 
Over half a century of experience as a coin collector.
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Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

BC Numismatics

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Luxembourgish 2007 ?1 and ?2 coins.
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2007, 01:11:06 PM »
A3v1,thank you for that information about the current Chief Engraver of the French Mint & why he chose this privy mark.I can guess that a similar thing occurs when a new Mintmaster of the Royal Dutch Mint comes into office.

Aidan.

Offline a3v1

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Re: Luxembourg 2007 1 ? and 2 ? oddity
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2007, 01:23:13 PM »
Aidan, that is correct.
The present Dutch mintmaster's privy mark is the sails of a ship. His grandfather was the captain of a such-like ship.
The present Belgian mintmaster's privy mark is a set of scales, referring to his astrological sign Libra.
Regards,
a3v1
Over half a century of experience as a coin collector.
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Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.

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Privy marks on Belgian Euro coins.
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2007, 02:12:31 PM »
A3v1,is there any privy marks on the Belgian Euro coins? I have looked on some examples of the Belgian Euro coins dated between 1999 & 2002,& didn't see any privy marks at all.I can guess that the Royal Belgian Mint Mintmaster's privy marks are only on the medal-coins denominated from 5 Euros upwards.Am I correct?

Aidan.

Offline a3v1

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Re: Privy marks on Belgian Euro coins.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2007, 07:06:21 PM »
A3v1,is there any privy marks on the Belgian Euro coins? I have looked on some examples of the Belgian Euro coins dated between 1999 & 2002,& didn't see any privy marks at all.I can guess that the Royal Belgian Mint Mintmaster's privy marks are only on the medal-coins denominated from 5 Euros upwards.Am I correct?
  @Aidan,
The circulating Euro coins of the standard series are showing neither a mintmark (angel's head) nor a privy mark. However: The circulating 2 ? Belgian commemorative coins of 2005, 2006, and 2007 proudly are showning both. See picture.
Regards,
a3v1 
Over half a century of experience as a coin collector.
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Money is like body fat: If there's too much of it, it always is in the wrong places.