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Pakistan, 50 paisa, 1986

Started by <k>, February 01, 2023, 01:16:40 AM

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<k>

Pakistan 50 paisa 1986.jpg

Pakistan, 50 paisa, 1986.


Why are the numerals of the denomination broken in this way?
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chrisild

Because the government wanted the design to be fancy? ;) The text پيسه apparently means "money" but then the word "paisa" can have the very same generic meaning. So I assume it says 50 paisa/paise.

<k>

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quaziright

Considering Urdu is the same as Hindi on Indian coins, it is likely the plural "Paisé"

Pabitra

No. The word "paisa" as a name of sub unit of currency, is proper noun.
This is not subject to rules of day to day usage of language.
In India, its plural was "paise". Last of 50 Paise coins was minted in 2018 and is still a legal tender though not seen in use.
In Pakistan and Nepal, the plural of " Paisa " was "paisa" only.
This subunit is no longer legal tender in Pakistan.
Nepal never officially extinguished this unit but it is no longer used as a coin in urban areas.

<k>

Quote from: Pabitra on February 02, 2023, 05:12:58 AMNo. The word "paisa" as a name of sub unit of currency, is proper noun.
This is not subject to rules of day to day usage of language.
In India, its plural was "paise". Last of 50 Paise coins was minted in 2018 and is still a legal tender though not seen in use.
In Pakistan and Nepal, the plural of " Paisa " was "paisa" only.

I had copied 'paisa' from Numista, assuming it would be right, so I am pleased that it is.  :)
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quaziright

Thanks, that is very interesting of the treatment of the language between countries. I imagine it might have been similar for the Euro where an Anglophile would have said 2 Euros while the continent insists on 2 euro

Figleaf

#7
That is a misunderstanding. European regulation says nothing on how euro should be pronounced or written. The only thing established in rules is the design of the coin. Even there, the regulation leaves place for other scripts.

Also, unchanging plurals do occur in English (sheep, police and even penny when thinking of a denomination - three penny bit). You may be thinking of English grammatical rules for "foreign" words. I would argue that since Europe is not a foreign word, Euro is not a foreign word either, so unless someone has great trouble wrapping their mind around the plural of sheep, there is no problem.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

<k>

Quote from: quaziright on February 02, 2023, 01:30:20 PMI imagine it might have been similar for the Euro where an Anglophile would have said 2 Euros while the continent insists on 2 euro

An Anglophile is somebody who likes England and the English. An Anglophone is somebody who speaks English, usually as his or her first language.

As a born Englishman, my tendency is to say '2 euros'. There is no rule that says I shouldn't. In English, a noun ending in a vowel tends to attract an 's' as a plural. That includes slang and colloquial nouns. However, with regard to price, the plural of pound can be either pound or pounds, depending on the context, e.g. "How much did that cost?" "Two pound".

Foreign languages are a different matter. Occasionally in memos or emails at work, somebody would write "stati" as the plural of "status". In fact, its plural is simply "status", as in Latin, because the Latin word is a fourth declension noun, not second declension. However, if I pluralise "status" in speech, I usually anglicise it and say "statuses", which strictly speaking is incorrect.
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quaziright

Yea, that's a typo on my part. I meant Anglophone indeed

chrisild

Personally I do not really care whether somebody says "euro" or "euri" or "euros" etc. for the plural. What I find odd is when somebody tries to explain that in English it should be "euros" because that is what English people do with regard to such names. No, they do not - as shown in this very topic about "paisa".

Side note: The rules about the use of the word "euro" in other scripts (Cyrillic and Greek) on coins and notes is a little more complicated. ;)

<k>

Quote from: chrisild on February 02, 2023, 02:15:00 PMWhat I find odd is when somebody tries to explain that in English it should be "euros" because that is what English people do with regard to such names. No, they do not - as shown in this very topic about "paisa".

No, I did not say that it SHOULD be "euros". I said that that is what Anglophone people tend to say. I am talking about habits of language - not prescriptive rules

I wrote "paisa" because that is what I found on Numista. It is most certainly not an everyday word for Anglophones, so no general tendencies would usually apply here.
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FosseWay

There is something of a misunderstanding going on in the above debate.

De jure, there is no authority over the English language with the competence or powers to decide that this usage is right and that wrong. This makes English unusual among European languages, which mostly have a body like the Académie Française, the Accademia della Crusca or Svenska Akadamien that oversees developments in the language.

<k>'s experience is the same as mine, that most English speakers I've come across pluralise "euro" in the regular way, by adding an S. That is as close as we can come to a verdict on right or wrong: if the "average educated person" uses a given word or construction in "average educated formal speech", then it is de facto correct.

What I would caution against for either side of the argument, however, is drawing spurious parallels between words with no linguistic connection. The existence of English words with invariable plurals (e.g. sheep) neither supports nor disproves either form of the plural of "euro". The two are simply irrelevant to each other. This is why the mammals that eat snakes are mongooses in English, not *mongeese, and why the Frenchified Vikings who conquered England in 1066 are the Normans, not the *Normen. The terms in each pair come from different sources and therefore have different morphologies. 

Also - on threepenny bit: "threepenny" is used as an adjective here, and adjectives in English don't decline by number (unlike in, say, French or Swedish, where you always use a plural adjective if it refers to a plural noun). For the same reason we talk about a million-pound investment or a two-year-old child, not *pounds and *years. The exception is when we use adjectives as nouns, so we might talk about the "newly-weds" at a wedding, or "two larges and three regulars" at a fast-food restaurant.

Here endeth the lesson  ;) (I do this stuff for a living...)

chrisild

Right, like many other languages spoken in Europe, English has no "prescriptive body" in such regards. Maybe that explains why, from what I have read in the past twenty-something years, in Ireland (English speaking plus in the euro area) the plural "euro" is more common than in non-euro countries such as the UK or the US. Guess that administrative use, even without "dictating" what people use, has a certain influence.

Since we are digressing anyway 8) – in the German speaking countries before 1871, you would see the "Pfennige" plural on various coins. Then, when it was one country or two, you saw "Pfennig". The trailing "e" was used in spoken (and even written) language when you wanted to express a definite or indefinite number of Pfennig coins.*

As for the euro, we have discussed that several dozen times, I think. ;) The official terms used on the coins and notes are "euro" and "cent", no variations. (On the country specific sides of the coins, in Greek and future Cyrillic, local variations are OK as the characters are different anyway.) But there is no "European authority" that would dictate whether you say/write "euro" or "eiro" in the singular, "euro" or "euri" in the plural, and so on.

* By the way, roughly the same with $ cash. Five dollars = fünf Dollar. At least that is most common around here.

Pabitra

#14
image.jpeg


The sub units in Euro are written as Euro Cent on coins but never spoken as that in EU area.

As far as Pakistan is concerned ( this topic), Pakistan introduced decimal currency in 1961 vide section 15B , Amendment 31 of 1960 to Pakistan Coinage Act and defined Paisa. The initial set of coins in 1961 clearly indicated Paisa as plural on 5 and 10 Paisa coins. Later, the use of English was stopped on the coinage.