an Oriental peacock

Started by Guillaume Hermann, December 15, 2022, 10:05:02 AM

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Guillaume Hermann

Hello,

This coin seems to be a restrike in Arabic or Persian on a coin in Arabic or Persian too... What I suppose to be a peacock made me search on Afghanistan, Persia, Georgia, unsuccessfully. Another member spoke about Indonesia.
This coin is quite big: 30 x 25 mm and 16,95 g. Do you know what it is?
https://www.numismatique.com/forum/topic/14653-monnaie-falus/
paon1.jpg
paon2.jpg
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Figleaf

The host coin reminds me much of the Maldive islands, but that may be different with the coin in hand and I have never seen a counterstamped coin of the Maldives before.

I hope there is information on the reverse counterstamp to clarify the provenance, use and age. The magic duo, Maythem and Saro can probably coax out something from the text.

My impression is that it is not a coin. The combination of the bird and the text seems a highly fanciful rendition of a Singaporean "cock duit". As you know, they started out as Birmingham-struck, extremely lightweight trade tokens and ended up as popular gambling pieces. Gambling, or at least gaming piece would not be a bad guess, I think.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Guillaume Hermann

Thanks, but it seems older to me than the original Birmingham cock duit.
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Guillaume Hermann

In just understood the second photo could be upside down, but not sure. The long line could be "zarb" partially off countermark? This is what it looks like after rotation:
paon2.jpg
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saro

#4
no rotation needed..
This coin is today mine  :D  (bought in 2014) and is already listed in the WoC index : see this post which also refer to a similar coin posted in 2016 by a member.
Persian civic copper of Rasht.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Guillaume Hermann

Quote from: saro on December 21, 2022, 04:25:21 PMno rotation needed..
This coin is today mine  :D  (bought in 2014)
:o  :o  :o  I guessed this guy was a coin dealer, he asked us to identify hundreds of foreign coins without knowing a single word about it, never tried to find by himself, and published tens of coins the same day with the same neutral title for each one... But how surprising you have been the buyer of, at least, one of them!
He published 2300 messages during 2 years and a half, then totally disappeared in December 2015.
He asked for this precise coin on January 2014 and you bought it the same year, although he never received an answer about identification.
We still have lots of "more or less Arabic or Indian" coins submitted by him and never identified, perhaps you are the belonger of many of them and already know what they are...
Thanks for the link, I will have a look.
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Guillaume Hermann

I have more questions... What is a "civic copper", a coinage issued by a city and not by the State? And what is the period for this coin?
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saro

Quote from: Guillaume Hermann on December 21, 2022, 09:40:57 PMWhat is a "civic copper", a coinage issued by a city and not by the State? And what is the period for this coin?
Civic coppers :
In the Persian Empire, the monetary system set up by the Safavids, inherited from the Mongol Ilkhans who preceded them, and which was maintained until the Qajars, is of rare complexity: coins in noble metals were minted in mints distributed throughout the empire whose management was supervised by the Grand Vizier; the name of the Shah was engraved on them and they were, in principle, legal tender throughout the empire; the coinage of copper was a privilege granted to the governors of the provinces: each province or city of any importance had its own currency used in daily exchanges and only valid in the province where it had been minted.
These coins usually bear on one side the formula "zarb falus / copper coin struck at..." followed by the place of minting, often dated they do not indicate either their face value or the name of the sovereign. On the other side is a motif inspired by fauna or flora as well as signs of the zodiac or Chinese astrological signs allowing the population easy identification.

According to the weight and symbol of this peacock coin (= 4 misqals)I think it could have been struck at time of the last safavid Husayn Shah
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Guillaume Hermann

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