News:

Sign up for the monthly zoom events by sending a PM with your email address to Hitesh

Main Menu

Wilhelmina 2.5 gulden doubts

Started by carpatic, November 30, 2022, 03:26:37 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

carpatic

Hi. I have received a set of 7 2.5 gulden coins of Wilhelmina, all different years.
Individually, the coins look ok at first glance, although with minimal wear, and the weight slightly under 25g ( ranging from 24.84g to 24.96g), but when I see them together I have doubts. They look too much similar, all with almost no wear, with the same minimal rub. I have googled and seen that the Chinese were doing copies with copper nickel core and silver plating, which look quite good, I cannot distinguish them from the originals.
I've tested my coins with the magnet and they are not magnetic, and I have checked their sound when hitting with another ( non silver) coin and they do not seem to differ from the genuine coins of 25g. I don't know what more tests could I do.
I also found peculiar that the edge inscription is not aligned between the coins, that the inscription starts in different places. I have added in attachment a picture showing this lack of edge inscription alignment, with all coins being otherwise aligned ( same angle of the obverse & reverse)
I attach the pict of the coins.
I appreciate your opinion.


Figleaf

#1
I think the coins are genuine.

If the weight and size are correct, the metal is highly likely to be correct. Moreover, these are relatively common coins, while the Chinese prefer more expensive types. A good majority of their copies have a reeded edge and the size may or may not be correct. Yours are all different dates, which increases the chance that they are genuine. I don't see any fraudster produce dies with different dates but otherwise the same. Also, the wear on the coins pictured is different.

As for the edges, a different starting point is normal and a further indication that the coins are genuine. The blanks were produced with edge inscription before they were adorned by the obverse and reverse dies, so there is no relation between the position of the obverse/reverse and that of the edge lettering. It is also common to find "upside down" edge lettering, as on two of your coins.

(As for your links, note the word COPY below the queen's neck)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

carpatic

Thanks Peter.
Is there a way to really differentiate a well-done silver platted cupronickel from a genuine 0.720 Silver one?
The Chinese replicas are quite good and since they have a "factory" I see that they are actually doing it for all years
1929 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001693483761.html
1930 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001693512786.html
1931 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001693471959.html
1932 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001693616502.html

Figleaf

It is close to impossible to make a coin with the same diameter and weight in a different metal. You'd have to get the thickness right by a fraction of a millimeter and it won't be the same thickness as the original. Why bother if most people won't weigh or measure a copy anyway?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Henk

The fake rijksdaalders, sold by a "coin store" on AliExpress (the seller you refer to) are made from copper-nickel, plated with silver. The specific gravity of this material is about 8,9 while the specific gravity of silver (720 fine) is about 10. Thus these copies, if diameter and thickness are the same as of an original, will be about 10% lighter. So the weight will be about 22 grams. If they are made slightly thicker the weight could well be the specified 25 grams. The seller states that the weight might be a little different from the weight of an original. To detect the difference by a specific gravity measurement will require high precision as the difference between fake and original is so small. Another easy test is scratching the edge. As the base material is copper-nickel, which is silvery in appearance, this is also not a conclusive test.

Although the fakes are reasonaly good copies that will easily fool a lot of people there are many indications these are not genuine. The strike is weak and especially the beading and letters are coarse. Furthermore the beads are larger than on the original and not everywhere placed away from the rim. An enlargement of the edge section of both an original and a fake from the AliExpress site is shown below.
Genuine Fake details.jpg

The Wilhelmina rijksdaalders issued from 1929 to 1940 have a "secret" mark, a small extra dot between the beads. This extra dot can be seen inside the red circle. It is absent from the fake. For each issue after 1929 the dot is placed one position to the left.

Another indication will be the edge inscription. A lot of fakes have a reeded edge instead of a lettered one which makes them very easy to recognise. The AliExpress fakes are stated to have a lettered edge. No picture of it is shown on the site but I am sure it will prove to be less regular and sharp than the inscription on an original rijksdaalder. So the edge will also be a good indication. The lettered edges of your coins are perfect and a certain identification of an original coin.
 

carpatic

Fantastic, thank you Henk! I have scanned my coins at high resolution and I see the "secret mark".