Author Topic: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.  (Read 6024 times)

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Offline kansal888

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Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« on: January 08, 2010, 05:14:39 AM »
Can someone please enlighten me on 'Business Strikes'

Offline MS

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 07:17:39 AM »
Can someone please enlighten me on 'Business Strikes'

Sanjay,

A business strike is any coin struck for the purpose of circulation and not specifically intended or aimed at collectors. This is in contrast to coins released by mints in proof or UNC sets that are specially intended for collectors.

To add further, Braille we know has been issued both in business strike and UNC/Proof sets. There is speculation in some quaters that Gur Ta Gaddi may be issued for general circulation but nothing has been confirmed. Another example is the Telecommunication coin, while UNC/Proof sets have been issued for this coin, I don't know if this coin has been issued as a business strike.

MS
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 07:23:54 AM by MS »

Offline Bimat

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 08:36:18 AM »
A business strike is any coin struck for the purpose of circulation and not specifically intended or aimed at collectors. This is in contrast to coins released by mints in proof or UNC sets that are specially intended for collectors.
If it's a business strike,then it should be made available at face value.You can't expect a coin circulating when it is being sold 15 times the face value ::) It's NCLT in simple words (or MEDAL COIN :D)

Another example is the Telecommunication coin, while UNC/Proof sets have been issued for this coin, I don't know if this coin has been issued as a business strike.
The telecommunication coin is available only in UNC/proof sets.

Aditya
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Offline MS

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 09:05:55 AM »
If it's a business strike,then it should be made available at face value.You can't expect a coin circulating when it is being sold 15 times the face value ::) It's NCLT in simple words (or MEDAL COIN :D)
2 Rupee Braille business strike was sold not so long ago for 200 times its face value :) Even today it costs 12 times its face value from a local dealer. And it is found in circulation is some parts of the country.

The definition of business strike is simple - its a coin meant for circulation regardless of its dealer cost.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 10:09:01 AM »
Issue cost is not the same as dealer cost. Depending on demand, dealer cost can be higher or lower than issue cost.

Issue cost is not the only thing that determines if a coin is meant for circulation or not, but it is very important. Obviously, a 10 rupee coin that was issued at 200 rupees cannot circulate. But how about a gold 200 euro coin officially issued in France at face value? It will not circulate either. The main reason is that there is a 200 euro banknote and people prefer banknotes to coins, but also 200 euro is considered such a high value, that most people will not accept it either as a note or as a coin. If you have to make a payment of close to 200 euro or more, you are expected to pay electronically.

Circulation coins are simply coins that circulate. Whether or not they circulate can only be seen in practice.

Peter
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Offline asm

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 01:03:57 PM »
Issue cost is not the only thing that determines if a coin is meant for circulation or not, but it is very important. Obviously, a 10 rupee coin that was issued at 200 rupees cannot circulate. But how about a gold 200 euro coin officially issued in France at face value? It will not circulate either. The main reason is that there is a 200 euro banknote and people prefer banknotes to coins, but also 200 euro is considered such a high value, that most people will not accept it either as a note or as a coin. If you have to make a payment of close to 200 euro or more, you are expected to pay electronically.

Circulation coins are simply coins that circulate. Whether or not they circulate can only be seen in practice.

Peter

Peter,

The question is, NCLT is legal tender but not meant to circulate. It is official currency but due to some reason will not circulate. Like the Higher priced Rs 10, 20, 50,& 100 Coins issued as UNC & Proofs in India. Another reason could be that the coins were issued in small numbers only to commemorate some event and were not intended to circulate. That is the case with the Rs 10 Gur ta Gadi coin which has been only issued as UNC & Proof ... at prices way above the nominal price. IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN MEANT TO CIRCULATE. Being legal tender, if I decide to use it, no one may object.

Regarding the 200 Euro note, I had written in some other post earlier about my experiance with this as well as the 500 Euro. It was hard trying to cash them, and I had over 2000 Euro in 200 & 500 Euro notes since I thought my wallet will not look very fat.

Amit 
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Offline Bimat

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 06:03:20 PM »
2 Rupee Braille business strike was sold not so long ago for 200 times its face value :) Even today it costs 12 times its face value from a local dealer. And it is found in circulation is some parts of the country.
The definition of business strike is simple - its a coin meant for circulation regardless of its dealer cost.
Correct,but its issue price was 2 Rupees.(=face value),so it can (theoretically) circulate.The bimetallic in this case is being sold for 150 INR,no one will spend it since it will be his/her loss.
Business strike is same as NCLT,just more sophisticated word :D

Aditya
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Offline MS

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 07:36:41 PM »
Business strike is same as NCLT,just more sophisticated word :D
Aditya

Well I can agree to disagree. I present to you Exhibit A. http://coins.about.com/od/coinsglossary/g/businessstrike.htm

To me a business strike is the exact opposite. A coin that was meant for circulation. ALL NCLTS and coins made specially for collectors are not business strikes.

translateltd

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 06:43:56 AM »
Well I can agree to disagree. I present to you Exhibit A. http://coins.about.com/od/coinsglossary/g/businessstrike.htm

To me a business strike is the exact opposite. A coin that was meant for circulation. ALL NCLTS and coins made specially for collectors are not business strikes.


Agreed - in my understanding, a business strike is 'CLT', i.e. circulating legal tender, and the opposite of NCLT.  It raises an interesting question in its own way, though, given that the coins of regular ("circulating") denominations that we find in annual collector sets are not generally considered NCLT, yet they are - usually - of a quality that indicates they are not intended for circulation, and are sometimes struck by entirely different mints and using slightly different dies, as happens with New Zealand coins at present.

In any case, business strikes are what you can expect to find in your pocket, as distinct from either coins struck for collector packs or NCLT ...

One ref - there are lots more to be found via Google:

http://coins.about.com/od/coinsglossary/g/businessstrike.htm


Offline kansal888

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 12:13:32 PM »
Drawing simple analogy from philately:

Business Strike = Definitive Stamps = You easily get at Post Office at face value
NCLT  = Commemorative Stamps = Intended to make pockets of dealers fatter ::)


Offline Bimat

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 06:09:31 PM »
My point is-since you can not get the Indian commemorative tenner for face value even from bank/mint/any other source,it is NOT business strike but NCLT.On the other hand,the Braille issue is business strike,though it is not possible to get it for face value ::)

Aditya
It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. -J. K. Rowling.

andyg

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 08:00:38 PM »
My point is-since you can not get the Indian commemorative tenner for face value even from bank/mint/any other source,it is NOT business strike but NCLT.On the other hand,the Braille issue is business strike,though it is not possible to get it for face value ::)

Aditya

I've always thought that Business strike was a way of describing the condition of the coin, NCLT is a way of describing the type of coin.  So in this case the 10R would be both a business strike and NCLT.

RHM22

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 08:55:55 PM »
I've always thought that Business strike was a way of describing the condition of the coin, NCLT is a way of describing the type of coin.  So in this case the 10R would be both a business strike and NCLT.

That is correct, at least in American numismatics.

Business strike - a coin struck with no special care
Specimen - a coin struck with specially prepared dies
Proof - a coin struck at least twice from specially prepared dies

So, if an Indian commemorative was struck without any special care, it would be called a business strike, no matter the issue cost. A coin with a satin or some other finish would generally be considered specimen.

A good example:

In 2008, the American Silver Eagle was struck in three finishes. One was a normal business strike, to be valued at or near bullion price, another was struck with a special burnished finish, and the third type is proof. That means that one is a business strike, one is a specimen strike, and one is a proof strike.

Offline UK Decimal +

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 09:14:32 PM »
It looks like we've fallen back into the trap of the unmentionable m….-c… again.   It appears to me that the term 'NCLT' is causing the same sort of problem.   Why do you persist in using these unnecessary terms?   Why not just quote the actual coin that you are referring to?

In the UK, the Royal Mint currently issues base-metal coins to three standards of production.   Proof, BU and Circulation.   Why not use this wording?   The meanings should be clear to all:
Proof - a special strike intended to be as near a perfect coin as possible.   In some cases the relief may be specially finished to give an effect that is variously described as matt/matte/frosted/satin.
BU (= Brilliant Uncirculated) - again a special strike but giving an extremely shiny surface.
Circulation - the coins that are to the quality of the ones in everyday use.
The above wording refers only to the coin as struck.   How it is distributed is another matter.

I would use wording like "UK 2009 50p 'Blue Peter', stuck to Circulation standard only".   Is that a clear description?   How much it costs does not affect the coin itself.   Added to the description could then be "available only in presentation pack at £x.xx".   Is it a m….-c… or NCLT?   Does it really require any description other than what I've suggested?   Perhaps, in some cases, it might be desirable to quote the mint concerned.

It appears that the names of the various standards of striking may differ from country to country.   Perhaps this is what we should be discussing.

But then there are some who call the condition of their coin BU …

Bill.
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People look for problems and complain.   Engineers find solutions but people still complain.

andyg

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Re: Business Strikes, NCLTs etc.
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 10:00:11 PM »
Precisely Bill,
Non circulating legal tender does not refer to the quality of the coin's manufacture but it's distribution.

Suggestions welcome for a better phrase, to cover the wide spectrum of distribution channels for coins which are not encountered in everyday use.