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ID help - thick copper coin? - Possibly Persian?

Started by CameronK, July 19, 2022, 03:34:00 PM

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CameronK

Hello! Found this mystery coin on a road trip in South Carolina. Can anyone help me narrow it down?

I'm estimating its size as being 22 mm. I don't have my scales with me to get a weight.

I think I see a lion with a sun on one side, making me think it's Persian. But I appreciate all opinions.

Side view.jpgSide 2.jpgSide-1-a.jpgSide-1.jpgCompare copy.jpg       
Why? I coax stories out of unidentified coins.

saro

A persian civic copper for sure !
The mintname is placed in a scalloped cartridge, the writing is elegant but not at all highlighted by a defective strike  which gives the reading uncertain...
However I'm quite sure that's a coin of the Isfahan's mint, close to the presentation falus "Zeno #144513".
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

CameronK

Quote from: saro on July 19, 2022, 05:55:52 PMA persian civic copper for sure... I'm quite sure that's a coin of the Isfahan's mint, close to the presentation falus "Zeno #144513".

Thank you for the reference. Is there an online link to Zeno numbers? Do you mean the Zeno.Ru site?
Why? I coax stories out of unidentified coins.

saro

#3
Quote from: CameronK on July 19, 2022, 07:22:24 PMThank you for the reference. Is there an online link to Zeno numbers? Do you mean the Zeno.Ru site?
Yes it's Zeno.ru
When you go on it,just under "ZENO.RU" at top, when you enter the item reference "144513", you obtain this. (not exactly the same type but some similarities)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

CameronK

Thank you again! The example is 34 mm. Mine is about 22 mm. Maybe it is a 1/2 falus. I'm doing more research now. Thanks for the great example & start!
Why? I coax stories out of unidentified coins.

saro

The Zeno coin is a rare presentation falus specially well struck on a broad flan. Flans of common coin are usually smaller than the dies; yours was botched by the coinmaker and very few words are present or legible in the legend.
The lion with down tail with a motive between legs is very close to Valentine #32 (Isfahan / p.133)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

CameronK

Many thanks for the detail. I found what could be another example based on your recommendation.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces194954.html
Why? I coax stories out of unidentified coins.

saro

According to your coin's size, Kashan is indeed a good candidate : in years 1135-40 AH, Kashan struck such thick coins weighing +/- 18,5g.(one is on WoC)
Due to a square punch mark, the only legible part of the mintname is a non-isolated letter "alif / A", which is very little...and could fit with Isfahan, Lahijan or Kashan; The "lion & sun" is common for many mints, with lion's up-tail or down-tail. Both Isfahan and Kashan used the down-tail lion on their coppers.
Style and cartouche lead to think better to Isfahan and the size to Kashan : it's hard to decide
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

CameronK

I finally got to my measuring tools! This example is 18.4 g in weight, 23 mm in diameter & 6 mm thick.

Thanks again for all the leads & details.
Why? I coax stories out of unidentified coins.

saro

Fine !
The scales are now leaning towards Kashan... In the absence of an existing pattern, the difficulty would be in trying to reconstruct the arrangemenet of the legend.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)