Afghanistan, AE falus of Qandahar with 8-pointed star (undated)

Started by saro, June 29, 2022, 02:54:17 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

saro

diameter : 13mm / 4,08g / thickness: 3 to 4mm
Small and thick copper coin with a lovely patina and design.
I couldn't find anything similar  but maybe I wasn't looking in the right place...
Did anyone have a suggestion?   
falus Xa.jpg
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Seeker55

I didn't find a match in Zeno, but there are a few coins with the distinctive six-pointed star in a circle and the right weight and diameter

https://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=15429

So I would venture a guess that your coin, like these, might be Umayyad, Egypt, AH 65-132

saro

#2
Thank you very much dear Seeker55.
According to the shape and the script, I think that this coin is much more recent.
Islamic dynasties have used five, six or eight-pointed stars on their coins (this last one called "rub el-hizb" is made from 2 squares) but a 45° eight-pointed star is not very common ( I only found one rather similar on a rare nisfi of Akbar.
Maybe the reading of the legend would help, but the job appears to be not so easy.. :-\ 
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Manzikert

It looks Central Asian Khanates (Bukhara, Khiva, Koqand) to me, but I haven't found anything on Zeno that fits though.

Alan

saro

#4
Thanks Alan, that's also my feeling but also without finding anything similar anywhere, I even went as far as Turkestan where "Aksu" as written in Arabic on some coins might have some similarity to the mysterious word  here.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

andyg

Personally I would go with Afghan,
it's similar to this one -
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,42262.msg265777.html#msg265777
A look through Zeno for Kabul didn't find anything much though.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Seeker55

Yes, I can see that it could certainly be more recent than Ayyubid. Actually on close examination it looks to me like the inner star has seven points, but a Zeno search for a seven-pointed star came up with nothing.

saro

Many thanks Andyg and Seeker55 :)
Shape, design and period may indeed fit with a Kabul falus, coppers from this mint were sometimes struck on very thick flans; However, the obverse is still a mystery and doesn't match with any of known afghan legend.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

saro

Trying  to find a credible signification of the obverse legend, I went to a possible reading as « qamri or qamari  قمری / قمري " (which means in both arabic and persian « lunar »), and looking for such a coin denomination, I found a travel narrative titled « to Mesopotamia and Kurdistan in disguise » in which the author, E.B Soane, describes the currency in early 1900' in use in Suleymaniya (in Kurdistan, close to persian border):
"Suleimaniya has retained the persian currency, though it is many a long year since it belonged to that nation. No turkish coins except the mejidie (20 piastres) being accepted ; thus old names and coins remain // Everything is reckoned in Qamari and this imaginary coin is worth four « pul », (« the pul being a copper coin of Persia worth about 1/ penny)"
according to E.B Soane :
1 Qamari = 4 pul (Cu)
1 Baichu (Ag) = 7 pul
1 Tihrani (Ag) = 9 qamari (5 baichu + 1 pul)

Could it be a concretization of this currency of account is a question  ???
4 pul of circa 1g could well fit with its weight ...



"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

saro

We can forget the hypothetic qamari  ::)
If we make a 180° rotation, the stange "word" in center become a " ها Ha" which, associated with the fractions parts of cut words, gives with confidence :" قندهار  "  :)

So, the legend seems to be only "Qandahar" without "falus" or "zarb"
Qandahar falus b.jpgQandahar falus.jpg 
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

aws22

#10
Dear Saro, Qamari (قمري), is an Ottoman smallest coin that was popular in Iraq during the days of the Ottoman rule over Iraq. As for the reason for calling it the lunar, it is due to the image of the moon or the crescent engraved on it, which is the emblem of the Ottoman Empire. That is why when you hear some of them saying (ماعندي ولا قمري , I have not a single Qamari) and (فلان مايسوه قمري , someone is not worth a Qamari), meaning he is not worth a penny (or Fals) and so on.

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

saro

Very interesting Maythem ! I better understand the reason for this popular name.

"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Figleaf

Quote from: saro on July 01, 2022, 01:39:45 PMIf we make a 180° rotation, the stange "word" in center become a " ها Ha" which, associated with the fractions parts of cut words, gives with confidence :" قندهار  "

In that orientation, I see a 1, a 3 or 4 and an 8. Wouldn't 138x be a convenient date ;D

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

saro

I think that's only ornaments even if one of them looks like a "3". (138x AH gives 196x AD...)
Qandahar written like this is mainly seen before the Durrani era when it became Ahmadshahi, and later, when the mintname "Qandahar" is used (by british or Barakzaï) "Ha" is written differently
Qandahar mintname.jpg
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)