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bronze with shadda: Ottoman, AE Para, Mahmud II, Tripoli mint

Started by Guillaume Hermann, June 28, 2022, 11:50:00 AM

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Guillaume Hermann

Hi to all,
Due to my professional and private life, on our French-speaking forum many topics were unanswered and not correctly titled by me, sometimes since the beginning of 2017! These last months, I retook more than 1300 topics, and found 71 coins which were waiting for your help, as we do not succeed to identify them by ourselves. Almost all of them are written in Arabic or Arabic-style. We have no Arabic reader.
Figleaf kindly allowed me to submit it to you, but of course not everything in the same day. Can you please help us?
In accordance with the alliance with Zeno and Numista, if you can choose your references from these sites, it would be perfect... Thank you!

The first is here: bronze, 2,60 g, 18 mm. We found the kind of link on the second face is named "shadda" and may be seen on Ottoman and Moroccan coins and civic copper fals... but that is all.


Ottomans in Libya (Tarabulus Gharb = Tripoli) » Sultan Mahmud II (1223-1255) / 1 para
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Guillaume Hermann

Thank you very much Saro!


Thank you Saro, for the coin ID:
Dear Guillaume, your coin details:
Ottoman Empire, Mahmud II, AH 1832/RY 25, Copper 1 Para, Tarabulus Gharb (Tripoli) mint, KM 89 (AH 1223-1255/1808-1839 AD).   
Reverse (Left photo): from top, it reads:
٢٥ , 25   (Regnal year)
ضرب  , duriba
فى  , fi
طرابلس  , Tarabulus
غرب  , Gharb (Tripoli)
Obverse (Right photo):
In the center, is a carpet beater symbol (also called as Knot of Happiness), it is not a mintmark but in some cases it is associated with the master engraver of the mint.
Around: سلطان محمود خان  , Sultan Mahmud Khan
Mahmud II (محمود ثانى) was the 30th Sultan of the Ottoman Empire from 1808 until his death in 1839.
Attached is a similar coin with clear text.

Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".


Numista 79759

KM distinguishes three (sub)-types: KM 89 (date above shadda), 90.1 (date below shadda and 90.2 (date inverted), where date is 1223. A note to KM 89 says Several variations are found in the arrangement of the obverse legend (...)

In view of the shape of the shadda, I think the illustration of KM 89 should be turned 90° counter-clockwise and the illustration of KM 90 should be turned 90° clockwise, so that on both sides the date is at 9 o'clock, as it is on Zeno's coin. If you have a different opinion on what the down side of the shadda is, all these coins turn the same way, so the difference is in the lay-out of the legend, which is covered in the note.

However, it looks like the coin on Numista and the OP coin have the date at 12 o'clock, unlike the above coins.

All that said, I would say that the date should be covered by the note also, i.e. just like the other elements of the legend, it can be in different places, so KM 89 and 90 are in fact the same type.

An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Guillaume Hermann

Thank you very much Maythem! I remember you already helped me about coins. It is a great honor for us to have you with us.