The Grand Numismatic Alliance

[Figleaf]

Thank you for responding, FosseWay. I am not too worried about tokens. As you say, Numista has few of them. Getting them into WoT is the more urgent issue. My reference problem is principally with coins in Arabic script.

Peter

[brandm24]

I agree that Numista offers little information on many of the tokens listed, but I think they're stronger on US issues. If nothing else, a physical description (weight, diameter, etc.) and image is provided so that's helpful.

I'm going to make it a point to add images and text on issues I know about in an effort to "beef up" the site.

Bruce

[Figleaf]

Thank you Bruce. Very helpful! Indeed, those references increase the value of your posts.

Peter

[Amit Kher]

Here are the subjects under discussion:

Picture sharing - we will ask the whole membership to agree in advance that the pictures they submitted on one of their sites may be used on the other sites - with proper sourcing, of course. In return, for your permission, you get automatic permission from members of the other sites. You just add a little line like © CoinFreak@Numista or © Indiancoinguy@zeno. We haven't finalised arrangements yet, so don't start doing this now. All you need to do now is nothing, except letting me know if you insist on arranging permission with the poster on the other site yourself, rather than having it automatically.

Password safe. The three site owners have undertaken to organise a smooth transition in case anything happens to them. Again, you don't need to do anything except take note that WoC has been further future-proofed.

Shared login. This would mean that members of any site would have member access to the other site. This needs considerable organisation, as membership requirements are different on each site, but we have undertaken to do what it takes to realise this gleam-in-the-eye safely. Again, what you need to do is nothing.

Exchange of resources. We'll add further resources to the package as necessary. For example, members of Numista will be able to register directly for our monthly online events. Zeno members already have this facility through ams.

Links between web sites. This is a major project. We would like to add references to the other sites. In a first round, I will make lists of mentions of Numista and Zeno in WoC posts, so they can be cross-referenced. In a second stage, when we have agreed on the format of the cross references, I will ask you to make a change.

If you post a picture of a coin, please add a reference to Numista and Zeno where possible. You can start doing this now, by adding Zeno [ref nr] and Numista [cat nr] - if it's not in Numista, note Numista --. If it is not in Zeno and covered by its scope note Zeno --. If it's not in Zeno's scope add nothing on Zeno. We'll update the format later, if necessary. It's a small gesture and it will improve your world and that of other users.

Board moderators, please keep an eye on cross references and help members out as necessary.

I'll keep you posted in this thread, in particular when new functionality becomes available. Thank you all in advance for your help.

Peter

Peter, i just read this; wonderful news
i'll try & go back to all my posts where id was succesfull & add one or both as the case may be

[Figleaf]

You're hero, Amit.

Here is a new development. The three sites share pictures, each in their own way.

If you want to use a picture on Zeno posted by the hypothetical user manieta for non-commercial purposes, you can just go ahead. Give credit to e.g. manieta @ zeno. Same thing for pictures on WoC.

Users of Numista have a choice of 5 licenses:
Public Domain - you can use it. No strings. It would be polite to add a source anyway.
CC-BY As on WoC and Zeno, but commercial use is OK
CC-BY SA As long as you are a member of WoC or Zeno: as on those sites, but commercial use is OK.
CC-BY NC As on WoC and Zeno. No commercial use.
CC BY NC SA As long as you are a member of WoC or Zeno: as on those sites. No commercial use.

Confused? Maybe this will help. CC-BY means attribution required. SA means as long as I can use your piccies too. That's automatically true for Zeno and WoC members. NC means commercial use not OK.

However, very few Numista members have made a choice. That's normal human inertia, but it is irritating. It means that as before, you need to contact those users and work out a written deal. When you do that, I recommend that you point out that if they choose a license in their profile, they don't get those requests any more and they still get attribution, access to your pictures on the same terms and non-commercial use only.

Peter

[Figleaf]

I tried out this latest accomplishment on a project I was undertaking: WoT pages on Ukranian telephone tokens. The results are mixed, but encouraging.

Going through the list of Ukrainian telephone tokens, I found 40 potential candidates for photos on WoT from 12 owners. I also saw some obvious mistakes. I reported one. It was not acted upon. I did not explore that avenue further.

Of the 12 owners, 3 (25%) were not recognised by the messaging system. Apparently, photo credits are not created automatically, but typed by the user. Leaving the photo credit blank is allowed and makes it impossible to contact the owner for permission. Another difficulty is that you have no access to user profiles through the photo credit, so it is impossible to see which language(s) the Numista user speaks.

Just one owner had made a license choice. Using his picture was a fast and smooth operation. I contacted the other owners with a standard message that in fact proposed a CC-BY NC SA license as defined in my post above. The text of the standard message* was:

Si vous préférez correspondre en français, laissez-moi savoir.
 
I am interested in using your picture on these pages:
[list OF PAGES WITH THE PICTURES I WANT TO USE]
 
on this site:
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/wiki/Index_by_Subject#Telecommunication_tokens
 
Your picture will be attributed to you. No commercial use. Under the partnership between WoC/WoT with Numista, you have access to their images on the same terms, except you don't have to ask. If you want to avoid messages of this kind, please make a license choice in your Numista profile. As it is, I will need a reaction from you.
 
Figleaf

I received one angry reaction with refusal (user: MesBedes), one did not (yet?) reply, five came up with consent and one consented and asked for more information on WoT.

I obtained consent for all but four of the pictures I was after. My impression is that heavy users of Numista were quite co-operative, while occasional users had more misgivings: those who had most pictures I wanted (Kamolov2, Andrey78, Ernesto and gringo.l) were the most forthcoming. I had a few follow-up questions to the consenters. They were all answered. See the WoT page linked to for how I handled picture sourcing. The general format is [NumistaUsername@Numista]

It is due to the consenters that the project succeeded, but it took a few days of concentrated work and an Excel data base to keep track of the connections between Numista members, consents, picture references in Numista, WoT and the Savonin & Is'kov catalogue to get it done.

I encourage you to use the option created. It is worth the trouble. Keep in mind that on Zeno, permission is automatic, so you don't have the contacting-for-permission rigmarole.

Peter

* The message was developed in the course of the project. Some owners received a message that was worded differently, but with the same content.[/list]

[Globetrotter]

You can use all of my numista contributions of variants (> 1.000), I have at least my name in the documentation and if needed, also the people having helped or supported the given graphic.

[Figleaf]

Thank you, Ole. However, on Numista you should select a license in your profile to do what you want to do. Sorry.

It may help you to know that on Zeno and WoC, we implicitly use CC-BY NC SA, which means OK, you can use it for non-commercial purposes if you mention my name and let me use yours too. The last condition is automatically true for members of Zeno and WoC.

Peter

[Globetrotter]

Hi Peter,

I just changed my settings to your suggestion. Thanks

[Figleaf]

It is gratifying to see some fruits of the partnership with Numista, Ole.

http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,53874.0
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,53820.0

This is the sort of synergy I was hoping for: something comes up on one site and is used in a broader framework on another. The results are freely available for all. Nobody loses, everyone interested is better off.

May these examples inspire WoC and Numista members to think of more and other ways to use our co-operation. Your ideas are welcome.

Peter

[Globetrotter]

I and a numista friend have a huge project going on in numista. We're trying to document all the acknowledged variants of the US coins since the beginning of the minting of US coins.

We have done that in denomination and year order (up to more or less the WW1) and are now on the 10$ (Eagles). We started in December 2021! It's a huge work, and when we have finished we'll document the existing denominations up to now.

I hope you'll enjoy this thread  ( https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic113856.html )with the already "published" documentations although it's not up to date yet, it shows you the results of our efforts.

Have fun

[Figleaf]

You have a good point on tokens. There is more info on them in WoT than in Numista and still, most tokens aren't listed in either and I can't see that change any time soon. There are simply too many of them.

I'd say act in accordance with that logic. If there is extra info on the tokens in Numista, add the number. If there isn't, well, too bad. We're not a bunch of bureaucrats. The rules are not more important than simple logic.

Peter

[Figleaf]

Now we have two research projects helped ahead by the partnership: me doing pages on Ukranian telephone tokens, Ole doing his documentation thing on modern coins. Both of us achieved extra results. You can do this too.

However, the partnership isn't meant for researchers only. If you have ideas, wishes, complaints etc., don't just sit there, write something. Upthread there was enthusiasm, but now, this thread feels like a soliloquy to a theatre without public. If you have success stories, failures or frustrations to report, go ahead, ventilate them.

Peter

[Offa]

Excellent news the amalgam can only benefit collectors of all ages and experience

[Globetrotter]

It certainly has helped, that WoC have opened the possibility of larger files, since it made it prohibitive for me to publish my documentations here, 128 kb was just nothing, so I gave it up as you might have noticed? So I preferred to go to numista. Now I'm just taking my time to see, what can be done between WoC and Numista....