British India George V Rupee - A Jeweller's Cheating Weight?

[Shastri JC Philip]

Abhay,

It is obvious that either it is a fake, or an original coin that has been doctored by a very expert hand.

The inner rim from position 9 to 12, both obverse as well as the reverse, is not clear. Would you
be able to tune your digital microscope on this region and publish the shots?

with greetings -- Shastri

PS: are you a product of Miss Hill School, Gwalior?

[Abhay]

Abhay,

It is obvious that either it is a fake, or an original coin that has been doctored by a very expert hand.

The inner rim from position 9 to 12, both obverse as well as the reverse, is not clear. Would you
be able to tune your digital microscope on this region and publish the shots?

with greetings -- Shastri

PS: are you a product of Miss Hill School, Gwalior?

Dr. Shastri,

I don't think that it is fake. Your second opinion, that it has been doctored by a very expert hand, seems more obvious.

I am enclosing the images of the 9-12 position, as well as 6 for comparison.

I studied at AMI Shishu Mandir from KG to 8th, and than at Scindia School from 9th to 12th Std. But most of my classmates joined Miss Hills after 8th.

Abhay

[Abhay]

I feel that the same technique was used to increase the weight of this coin, as is used by Corum to make the 20 dollar coin watches.

Abhay

[akona20]

In certain suks in North Africa and the Middle East, filled coins are used when buying and hollowed coins when selling. The weight is agreed with a real coin of known weight (sovereign for example) and when the transaction is about to start the real coin is palmed for the filled or hollowed coin.

[Coinsforever]

On a closer look through the Microscope, now it can be seen that most probably, the coin was sliced into two halves, and then again joined together.

It is one of mysterious coin of BI , Line of joint all along circumference is clearly visible .

It would be interesting to see response from  experts in this field.

Cheers

[Shastri JC Philip]

Thanks a lot Abhay for the close ups of position 9-12. I believe the inner design pattern does not match that of a worn out genuine coin. Thus in all probability it is a fake. Let us see what the experts on this forum say.

Great to hear of your AMI and then Scindia background. Yes, Miss Hills was the natural transition from AMI. I am a product of Miss Hills Student/Teacher/Parent

with greetings -- Shastri

[Figleaf]

The challenge here is to explain how the coin gained weight. I tend to agree that it was produced using genuine silver coins. The edge is correct. Therefore, it must have been filled using the main decoration. The circle or stalk with the seam seems like the best place. Allow me to point out that a similar seam is visible on all rupees of this type.

In my scenario, the jeweller carefully digs out the innards of the coin, making sure he doesn't touch the outer ring of the seamed circle and doesn't pierce the obverse. He uses a second genuine coin to saw out the inner part, without touching the inner ring of the seamed circle and files off as much as he dares of the obverse. The result of these two operations would be a hollow box, made of two parts of two different coins, presumably of the same type. BTW, it is quite normal for this type to show more wear on the obverse, as the reverse was better protected against wear.

This technique was used to make prisoners coins and magical coins. A prisoner's coin was left hollow and the two sides were connected with a screw thread. Inside would be a tiny, rolled up toothed saw, strong enough to saw through the bars on a cell window. Magical coins would have an unmatched obverse and reverse, so that the magician could turn e.g. US silver dollars into Mexican silver pesos.

Next, the jeweller fills the box with a heavy metal e.g. lead. This is by far the trickiest part. Too much lead and it will either spill through the seam or the lid of the box wil sit too high. Too little lead and the lead will sit too low. The biggest risk is having too much lead, so the lid might just sit a bit too low. Maybe Abhay could check that. Another thing to check is the depth of the seam. This can be measured with a piece of paper inserted in the seam. The diference might be too small to see, or there might be a visible variation even in the depth of the seam of the heavy coin.

Peter

[Md. Shariful Islam]

In my observation the thicker coin is comparatively lesser sharp in design than the genuine one. I don't think that the overweight is not because of filler but because of the obvious feature of its extra thickness. I guess the coin is made of an old die and was supplied by the mint with special order.

Islam

[Shastri JC Philip]

Here are 9-12 scans of a regular coin. Let us see what others feel about this coin. I will also post 300 dpi scans of a regular coin in the next box.

[Shastri JC Philip]

Here is a regular 1912 coin at 300 dip. Higher resolutions are available.

[Shastri JC Philip]

Just checked the thickness also, using a screw micrometer.

The thickness of the heavy coin at centre is 1.17 mm, and that at the rim is 1.24 mm, even though it is quite worn out.

The thickness of a fine grade coin of 1912, with normal weight, is 0.62 mm at the centre, and 1.03 mm at the rim.

The coin on the right is Heavy Weight, and that on the left is normal weight.

Abhay

Abhay, I was waiting to get some 1912 coins. I have 3 on my table and feel that your measurement of good coins is in error. The measurements of the heavy coin are closer to the average value of thickness of a genuine coin. The average value is around 1.5 mm.  I used a good quality screw-gauge for my measurement.

I request you to check and post the thickness values once again -- Shastri