Author Topic: Wu Zhu #1 Hartill Number?  (Read 91 times)

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Offline Arusak

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Wu Zhu #1 Hartill Number?
« on: December 05, 2021, 12:30:50 AM »
Weight 1.20 grams, diameter 23 mm

Does anyone know what the Hartill number for this one is? Not very familiar with these and there's a lot of varieties.

Offline otlichnik

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Re: Wu Zhu #1 Hartill Number?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2021, 03:53:14 PM »
Arusak,

While I love the Hartill book, it is hopelessly out of date regarding Wu Zhu coinage.  There are several articles by Thierry on Wu Zhu coinage but the latest and largest work is "One Thousand years of Wh Zhu Coinage 118 BC - AD 958" by Heinz Gratzer and A. M. Fishman (2016).  They have relied on numerous Chinese language sources, most from the 21st century, which have in turn often relied on archaeological finds.

I believe that yours, based on the shape top of the two parts of the Zhu character, the lack of outer rim, and the size and weight, are Gratzer & Fishman B8.10, known in Chinese as Liang Wu Zhu Gongshi Nuqian.  These are cast under the Liang Dynasty, a southern dynasty during the North and South Dynasties Period, under Emperor Wu Di of the Liang (ruled AD 502-549) [not to be confused with the many other Wu Dis in Chinese history]. 

These coins were cast using earlier coins from both the Western and Eastern Han periods, with their rims filed off, as mother coins (mobianqian).  Thus they are slightly smaller than the originals and lack an outer rim on both sides and an inner rim on the obverse.  They are known to have been cast in great numbers 502 AD but may have been cast for some years after that too.

The original used to cast yours was likely, in my opinion, a Wu Di Wu Zhu from the Western Han Dynasty, Emperor Wu Di [another one] who ruled 141-87 BC and cast this type of coin from 113-87 BC (B1.33).  At some point long after it was made its outer rim would have been filed off, then nearly 600 years after it was made it was used as a mother to cast a new coin.  It was not unusual for Chinese cash to circulate for centuries. 

There is no proper Hartill equivalent.  His 10.17 is closest though erroneously ascribed.

SC



Offline Arusak

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Re: Wu Zhu #1 Hartill Number?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2021, 04:23:16 AM »
Arusak,

While I love the Hartill book, it is hopelessly out of date regarding Wu Zhu coinage.  There are several articles by Thierry on Wu Zhu coinage but the latest and largest work is "One Thousand years of Wh Zhu Coinage 118 BC - AD 958" by Heinz Gratzer and A. M. Fishman (2016).  They have relied on numerous Chinese language sources, most from the 21st century, which have in turn often relied on archaeological finds.

I believe that yours, based on the shape top of the two parts of the Zhu character, the lack of outer rim, and the size and weight, are Gratzer & Fishman B8.10, known in Chinese as Liang Wu Zhu Gongshi Nuqian.  These are cast under the Liang Dynasty, a southern dynasty during the North and South Dynasties Period, under Emperor Wu Di of the Liang (ruled AD 502-549) [not to be confused with the many other Wu Dis in Chinese history]. 

These coins were cast using earlier coins from both the Western and Eastern Han periods, with their rims filed off, as mother coins (mobianqian).  Thus they are slightly smaller than the originals and lack an outer rim on both sides and an inner rim on the obverse.  They are known to have been cast in great numbers 502 AD but may have been cast for some years after that too.

The original used to cast yours was likely, in my opinion, a Wu Di Wu Zhu from the Western Han Dynasty, Emperor Wu Di [another one] who ruled 141-87 BC and cast this type of coin from 113-87 BC (B1.33).  At some point long after it was made its outer rim would have been filed off, then nearly 600 years after it was made it was used as a mother to cast a new coin.  It was not unusual for Chinese cash to circulate for centuries. 

There is no proper Hartill equivalent.  His 10.17 is closest though erroneously ascribed.

SC

Thank you for the detailed response!