Need identification help on this please

[brandm24]

I assume that this is a coin rather than a token so have posted it here.

It's from the collection of a friend of mine and he asked for any help I could give him. I immediately thought of the many talented members here. I have no guess even as to what it is.

The coin is silver and weighs 14.65 grams. It's 35.75 mm in diameter and is 2.1 mm thick. He found it in a large collection of mostly US silver dollars and Mexican 1-peso coins about 40 years ago and has been trying to identify it ever since. The man he bought it from lived in South America for nearly 40 years and came across it at some point. On the original owners holder it noted that it was "silver of very high alloy."

Any help identifying it would be appreciated.

Bruce

[Manzikert]

I would assume it is more a medallion rather than a token, but certainly not a coin.

It appears rather 'Aztec' in style, a facing 'god' on the obverse and a dancing priest? on the reverse, so a South/ Central American origin seems likely. The two symbols at the far left and right look a bit like an open '9' or a 'g' left and a 'V' at the right, but if they are intended for letters I think that would point to a relatively modern origin.

Very interesting, but other than that I've no idea   

Alan

[THCoins]

Contrary to Alan i do not get an Aztec vibe at all.
I'd sooner associate this with a Belgian Carnaval society. The upper photo shows a design which could fit well with the coat of arms of some early 20th century public society. The lower photo looks like a fusion between Punch (Jan Klaasen) and Hermes with wings and a caduceus.

But that's also just a wild guess.

[brandm24]

Thank you both for tour helpful information. Interestingly, the man who originally owned the piece was a Belgian but had lived in South America for about 40 years. That might make it a Belgian Carnival token as THCoins speculated.

Now you both have me interested. I'll pass the information on but will pursue my own search based on your thoughts.

Bruce

[Figleaf]

In view of its provenance and the host (I think I see traces of an underlying design) being silver, I'd be more inclined towards South American, where G V (first pic at 9 and 3 o'clock) would be the link with the issuer. Sometimes, South American street sellers (at least in touristy places) sell altered coins as souvenirs/jewellery. The design reminds me of a crude version of what is known as a hobo nickel in the US.

Peter

[brandm24]

An interesting observation on hobo nickels, Peter. Though this isn't a thread on them I just wanted to post a couple for those who aren't familiar with these carved coins.

The true hobo nickels were originally carved on US Bufallo Nickels by men, well, hobos, who traveled the country by rail. The nickels were carved and traded for a meal or place to sleep. Several of the early carvers are known by their work, some signed some not, and have become very popular to collectors in recent years...and expensive.

The two most well known were Bertram Weigand, called Bert, and a man he tutored, George Washington Hughes known as Bo. Both began carving in the 1910's and continued on until about 1950 (Bert) and 1980 (Bo). Bert was born iin 1880 but his place of birth is apparently unknown. He worked up until the 1950s. Bo was born 1895 / 1900 in Theo, Mississipi and was last seen at a Florida hobo camp in 1980.

Bert signed his work by removing the L, I and Y in the word LIBERTY on the face of the coin leaving only BERT. Bo used his initials G H and carved them on a collar or bust of the obverse figure. His were dated. The  example I've posted reads "GH 21" (1921). The carving by Bert is actually a portrait of his student and friend Bo Hughes. His initials GH are added just below the collar on his shirt.

Bruce

[Figleaf]

TFP. Those are pieces of top interest, Bruce. Two real people, capable of friendship and art in miniature. If they'd just had a sponsor, one person who believed in them, what could they have been?

Peter

[brandm24]

These two pieces are the very early work of both men. Bo's is dated 1921 and Bert's, though not dated, is probably about 1915. As the years passed each became more sophisticated in their carvings and became accomplished artists in their own right. Bo is considered today as the best of the two.

They lived rough all their lives and were scarred by their experiences with railway security men, other hobos and the everyday harsh conditions they suffered under.. Later in life, Bo was so crippled by his circumstances that he could barely work. He was forced to punch designs on nickels as he could no longer carve but he never gave in.

Yes, I agree. What if... We'll never know.

Bruce