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Civic copper of Khoy / lion & star dated 1190 AH

Started by saro, March 24, 2021, 10:04:00 AM

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saro

21mm / 16,75g / thickness : 5mm
the star on the lion's body isn't a countermark but seems to belong to the reverse die ?
dated 1190 AH (this coin is known for both 1190  1191)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Figleaf

The mints that made civic tokens are described as pretty simple. I cannot think of a simple way to apply that star other than with a punch. Remember that the star would have to be en relief to produce an incuse star.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

saro

Quote from: Figleaf on March 31, 2021, 11:22:57 PM
I cannot think of a simple way to apply that star other than with a punch.

However, technically that seems very possible. If it had been a countermark, it would inevitably punched in more or less random places, but it is present exactly in the same place on the  the lion's body on all the coins that I could see... (S.Album, Alaedini, British museum, Zeno...)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Figleaf

Yes, I gathered as much.

The lion's body is dug out on the die. To create the star, the engraver would have to do a difficult job for a machine by hand.

The closest to this effect are the edge legends on the 1797 "cartwheel" coins. Consider that they were seen as a trade secret and highly innovative in 1797 and the technique was to my knowledge not used beyond the British Colonial empire.

I tried to dream up a way to do it in a non-mechanised mint, with marks on the coin and the anvil in order to put the coin in exactly the right position and a contraption around the punch that fits on the anvil. First, the punch would flatten part of the other side of the coin - maybe using the punch before the die could solve that. Second, the whole operation would seriously diminish the capacity of the mint but it wouldn't do anyone any good.

Mysterious.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

saro

Looking attentively at this coin and referring to the Stuart Poole catalogue, I realize that on the "Lion & Sun" design, this is the first time the sun has ears  :D

On the other hand, I still haven't found an explanation for the presence of the little star on the lion...

civic Khoy 1190 b.jpg
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

saro

#5
Quote from: saro on October 27, 2022, 03:11:42 PMOn the other hand, I still haven't found an explanation for the presence of the little star on the lion...
here may be the reason...
From 1210 AD until the end of Zands' rule, the Donboli tribe, a large Kurdish tribe, ruled much of western Azerbaijan. Their capital was the city of Khoy.
The Khanate of Khoy, who had pledged allegiance to the Shah, was also called "Principality of Donboli".
This coin was struck at time of Ahmad Donboli, Khan of Khoy ( 1763-86 AD / -1176-1200 AH)

The star on the body of the lion probably represents the Kurdish emblem: a radiant sun.
Khoy star.JPG
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)