Help needed to ID small Indian copper coin.

[Spaniard]

Thought it would be easy to id these 2 coins but they're really making me scratch my bald patch!
Any help will be much appreciated...Thanks Paul
Both coins are Copper,
First....12mm diameter and 1.1 gram..
Second...10mm diameter/ 0.67 grams.

[Manzikert]

I have about 5 similar items which I have got identified as '1 or 1/2 Kas coins from Travancore, c.1600-1800' but I haven't made a note of where I got this information

Perhaps someone else can enlighten us both.

Alan

[Spaniard]

Thanks Alan........I'm still not sure on Travancore but the fabric does look pretty similar...
The Kasu coinage that keeps appearing on searches all seem to have the classic crossed line, circles and crescent reverses?..But maybe there are other types?.....Coin 1 now I'm pretty sure is depicting a styalized conch shell and probably some type of animal maybe elephant, bull or lion on the other side?

Appreciate your time....Thanks Paul

[Figleaf]

Upper coin shows clear similarities with later, machine-struk coins of Travancore. I won't confuse with my gut reaction onthe second coin 

Peter

[mti]

First coin is this one:  https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=103403

Read the comments within the link, there is more info about it...

[Spaniard]

Thank you mti.......Really appreciated.
Thirai cash coin from Travancore around 1800ad.

[Palomares]

It is one of the many varieties that there are, unfortunately few collectors  pay attention to these coins.
An important book for these varieties is 'Coins of the Venad Cheras' By Beena Sarasan, unfortunately these two varieties are not in the book, Mitchiner does not have them in his books either.
Beena Sarasan says that the most appropriate term is 'Thira Cash' and not 'Thirai Cash'.

[Spaniard]

Thanks Palomares....Certainly an interesting collecting area.

[Palomares]

I do like these coins, they have numerous designs on the obverse and reverse.
I think that you see little in the market because they sell poorly and their price is small.
I also have some in my collection, here is an example.