Author Topic: Falses 2 pcs  (Read 522 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Igor Solo

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Falses 2 pcs
« on: November 24, 2020, 12:45:36 PM »
please help to ID

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33 247
Re: Falses 2 pcs
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2020, 10:01:03 AM »
Is this one coin, two sides pictured, or two coins, one side pictured?

The main design element looks like a Khanjar, but the whole, especially the "pillow" shape is more in Afghanistan/Iran style.
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Igor Solo

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: Falses 2 pcs
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2020, 10:44:40 AM »
See add photos

Offline Igor Solo

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: Falses 2 pcs
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 10:46:10 AM »
Coin 2

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33 247
Re: Falses 2 pcs
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 07:06:23 PM »
Clear. Thank you. My guess is Afghan/Iranian civic. Saro and Maythem have built up an incredible expertise on those, so there is hope.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 662
Re: Falses 2 pcs
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2021, 02:03:15 PM »
I hadn't seen this post at the time and just discover it...
An interesting lot of similar coins indeed !
Parts of legends are legible and it could be interesting to make a full reconstitution from these different coins.
The mintname is more or less present on some of them and even a coin gives without ambiguity  : " sikkah Herat / هراة "
likely minted under safavids.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 02:37:20 PM by saro »
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline saro

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 662
Re: Falses 2 pcs
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2021, 09:39:42 AM »
Parts of legends are legible and it could be interesting to make a full reconstitution from these different coins.
They are, I think, unpublished and are not civic coppers but offical safavid issues.
nobody tried the adventure of deciphering the text of these  coins  ???
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline saro

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 662
Re: Falses 2 pcs
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2021, 09:07:36 PM »
These coins rae attributed  to Herat but, may be due to their poor condition, didn't generate any particular interest among the WoC members and yet it seems to me that they offer  a great interest , as, I think, they are an unpublished variety of scarce royal issues known today as “be-la’nat” series...
From different coins pictures, I tried to make a reconstruction of the legends.
The coins are struck from different dies with some variations of arrangement or ornaments and have been sometimes heavily overstamped and the major difficulty was to eliminate the overstruck parts to obtain the initial script...
the full size dies  diameter are more or less 30-35mm and could be described as following :
Obverse :
Central ornamental cartouche : peacock standing to right / ornament on its back.
Among the coins, one  clearly shows "sikkah Herat سکه هراة" followed by an unusual formula :  « bad abad باد اباد  ».
 (« baldat Herat /city of Herat» is sometimes found on coppers  and «abad» has the same meaning in persian but associated with « bad » it hasn’t a satisfactorying transcription.
Another signification  of  abad is « eternity / eternal / for ever » and « bad » is likely here the contraction of « bashd باشد / may it be.. » (as for « bad mubarak » found on many  nowruz tokens) and could rather give « may it be for eternity » ; the rest is cut and hardly decipherable, it could be :( ارزیر"appreciated" ? )
The word "sikkah" itself  indicate a royal issue rather  an ordinary civic copper coin struck by a local authorithy. The word "sikkah" itself  indicate a royal issue rather  an ordinary civic copper coin struck by a local authorithy.
Reverse :
Central  similar ornamental cartouche : rooster (or peacock) preening its feathers.
The legend appears to be :
In which  the poetic  formula  باشد (bashd /may it be)  is  also shortly  written as  باد   (bad)
The legible parts of  legends (obverse/reverse) could give :

«  باد اباد  (ارزیر)... سکه هراة  / لعنت باد تغیرده... سکه  »
« may it the value of the coin of Herat be eternal ” /  « ….damned who modifies the state coin”

The 4 earliest safavids rulers have struck "be-la'nat" coppers, this one with a shortened legend could belongs to Tahmasp Shah I (his son Shah 'Abbas was born at Herat...)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)