Author Topic: Venice 5 soldi Pietro Grimani 1749  (Read 228 times)

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Offline carpatic

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Venice 5 soldi Pietro Grimani 1749
« on: October 26, 2020, 08:22:54 AM »
Hi. I cannot find this one in my Krause ( the 5th edition) and on the web I only found another reference in an ebay store, without a catalog reference ( which I will not link here in order not to break the forum rules)
The weight of my coin is under the standard for 5 soldi. It is only 0.86g. The size is correct, 20 mm
Is it a "fantasy" of that time or really a genuine coin? Could you help me identify a catalog reference?
Thanks

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Venice 5 soldi Pietro Grimani 1749
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2020, 10:16:27 AM »
Contemporary counterfeit?

I have a couple of English shillings from Elizabeth's reign (1558-1603) whose diameter is correct and whose workmanship is perfectly good enough to apparently be the real thing, but which are significantly underweight (not much more than a sixpence) and are clearly not sterling silver. My hypothesis is that they are contemporary fakes, not intended as fantasies but rather intended to defraud, just like fake €2 or £1 coins today.

I'm not familiar with the Venice series - what is the expected composition? From your pictures, your coin would seem to have a lot of copper in it - is this to be expected, or is it a sign of foul play?

Offline carpatic

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Re: Venice 5 soldi Pietro Grimani 1749
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 11:13:08 AM »
The regular issues of this type are billon, silver content 0.388, so I would not be surprised to see the heavy copper content. Its low weight is problematic indeed.
Since I've posted the topic I've found another occurrence of this coin, in an old auctioned lot. But I still cannot find a match with the Krause catalog.

Online Figleaf

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Re: Venice 5 soldi Pietro Grimani 1749
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2020, 02:47:22 PM »
The legends are completely wrong. JUDICUM RECTUM is on the coins of Aloys III and IV Mocenigo. There are plenty of genuine coins on the net. Here is one of them.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline carpatic

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Re: Venice 5 soldi Pietro Grimani 1749
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2020, 07:24:00 PM »
It may be a made-up coin, but after searching more it is actually not an exception, there were plenty.
Some links showing the same type:
https://www.ebay.it/itm/324348040402
https://www.ebay.it/itm/NF-Venezia-Pietro-Grimani-1741-1752-Trairo-da-5-Soldi-1749-880-17-/153371127443
and maybe the best illustration, in the set of Pietro Grimani coins:
https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2563&lot=1082 ( our subject is in bottom left)
And finally a catalogue indication "Trairo da 5 soldi 1749. CNI 72. Paolucci 24"
Maybe if someone has the Paolucci catalogue, "Le monete dei dogi di Venezia", the quest will be solved