casino Chaudfontaine & casino Knokke

[malj1]

Side by side the star is smaller, as is the token, 21 opposed to 22mm.

I see the star has pointed ends whereas the zinc ones have rounded ends.

[Afrasi]

The CK token is described in "Les médailles de la présence belge en Afrique centrale" by Marc Vancraenbroeck (page 73). According to the author it was used in the companie's counters as money for the natives. Additionally I have a picture of a similar token inscibed "BON POUR UN PAIN / C.K.". I guess there is no need for such a bread token in the casino of Knokke.

[Afrasi]

Mal's token could well be from Torino. The bull is shown in the arms of that town. But the tail is not quite correct. It should be curved about the back of the bull, not behind. This token once was sold as a Congolese token, but that means not much ...

[Figleaf]

Additionally I have a picture of a similar token inscibed "BON POUR UN PAIN / C.K.".

That instantly creates a credible Flemish explanation: Cooperatieve (Cooperatie or Cooperatief) Kongo.

It's all the more credible because of Belgian segmentation: Flemish was socialist and co-operative care for the poor and (manual) workers, while French was conservative and church care for the poor and employers/royalist. A Congolese co-operative would have been an act against the royal regime, perfectly understandable in the post Congo scandal era.

Peter

[Afrasi]

I would prefere calling it a side piece of the C.K. (Compagnie de Kasai) token.

[africancoins]

I have the "C.K." / (star) type. I have always considered it to be rather similar to the "CASINO-KURSAAL d'OSTENDE" / "1" tokens e.g. size, material, rims...

Furthermore the "C.K." / (star) type is listed in the book on British Machine Tokens as Hayes-91. This book does not list much that is foreign but has evidently made a mistake with this piece.

The star on the piece shown with the bull does not seems to be quite the same star (e.g. it has sharper points...).

In a machine token use a star would perhaps have just meant a free go.

I am still not convinced by the African connection for the "C.K." / (star) type.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

[Afrasi]

I will try to contact Marc Vancraenbroeck. Perhaps he has any proof for the listing in his book.

[Figleaf]

No need. Jezuss has contacted him already.

Peter

[jezuss]

no, i contacted marc willemans from the "belgische gemeentepenningen" catalog.

[jezuss]

Today i got this answer from Marc :
"Men heeft me bevestigd dat het NIETS te maken heeft met de COMPAGNIE DU KASAI !"

He doesn't mention who told him...

According to his latest Belgium municipal tokens catalog (2019),
the C.K. token is from Casino Kursaal in Oostende.

[johnkooij]

the CK token = Casino Knokke, the C CH token = Casino Charleroi. Both zinc, both Belgium.

[malj1]

Thank you! it is good to have these two explained correctly at last.



Do you know anything of this other piece? this one is  cu-ni 21mm.

[steevbe]

The C.K. is from casino Knokke and the C.CH. is from casino Chaudfontaine.
Due to the fact that CK is also used as KC, Kursaal Chaudfontaine, the token of Chaudfontaine got an extra letter to avoid mixup.
These tokens were used for tax purposes on the tables. These were not used in the game.

all 8 casinos had these tokens and I'm still searching for Dinant and Middelkerke

[Afrasi]

Is this token also from the Casino Knokke?

[Figleaf]

Quite unlikely, as casinos sold luxury goods and services. I think the C here is for co-operative, a socialist organisation, popular in Flemish lands (which includes Knokke), considered heathen in French speaking Belgium, where catholic authorities considered taking care of the poor a monopoly of the church.

Peter