Author Topic: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums  (Read 249 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline eurocoin

  • Technical posts member
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4 022
This countermarked piece, found on 31 January of last year in circulation in Leicester, is also thought to be related to Brexit.


© Reddit user Chelzehrae

Offline FosseWay

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 449
  • Göteborg, Sverige
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2020, 07:25:28 PM »
This countermarked piece, found on 31 January of last year in circulation in Leicester, is also thought to be related to Brexit.


© Reddit user Chelzehrae

My first thought is that that is more likely to be related to Scottish independence than Brexit. The question in the Brexit referendum was not formulated in such a way as to invite answers of "Yes" or "No"; it's therefore unclear whether "Yes" means Leave or Remain. On the other hand, the question in the 2014 referendum was of the Yes/No type. Moreover, "still yes" refers to the loss of the first referendum, and the punching over the Queen's head may well also be significant. Many (but by no means all) supporters of Scottish independence are also republicans (in the generic sense, not the Irish or American senses). On the other hand, the monarchy isn't particularly relevant in the Brexit debate, and Leavers in particular are probably disproportionately likely to be monarchists and therefore to avoid defacing the portrait.

Offline brandm24

  • BR & M
  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1 410
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2020, 09:48:19 PM »
My first thought is that that is more likely to be related to Scottish independence than Brexit. The question in the Brexit referendum was not formulated in such a way as to invite answers of "Yes" or "No"; it's therefore unclear whether "Yes" means Leave or Remain. On the other hand, the question in the 2014 referendum was of the Yes/No type. Moreover, "still yes" refers to the loss of the first referendum, and the punching over the Queen's head may well also be significant. Many (but by no means all) supporters of Scottish independence are also republicans (in the generic sense, not the Irish or American senses). On the other hand, the monarchy isn't particularly relevant in the Brexit debate, and Leavers in particular are probably disproportionately likely to be monarchists and therefore to avoid defacing the portrait.
The punching of something over the Queen's portrait is usually meant to make a political statement, but not always. In the Irish conflict I was once told that a Loyalist slogan stamped over her portrait has got to be fake as no "good"Unionist would deface the Queen. I disagree. I've seen far too many paramilitary unit  and political party stamps struck that way to know better. As a matter of fact, about 8 to 10% of all Loyalist stamps on British coins are applied on the obverse...and they're not fakes.

It's an interesting coin though. I'm just not sure what it refers too.

Bruce
Always Faithful

Offline FosseWay

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 449
  • Göteborg, Sverige
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2020, 09:58:05 PM »
The punching of something over the Queen's portrait is usually meant to make a political statement, but not always. In the Irish conflict I was once told that a Loyalist slogan stamped over her portrait has got to be fake as no "good"Unionist would deface the Queen. I disagree. I've seen far too many paramilitary unit  and political party stamps struck that way to know better. As a matter of fact, about 8 to 10% of all Loyalist stamps on British coins are applied on the obverse...and they're not fakes.

It's an interesting coin though. I'm just not sure what it refers too.

Bruce

Absolutely agree - after all, the portrait takes up rather a lot of the available surface so it can be hard not to deface it. The stronger argument that it isn't Brexit-related is the "Yes".

Offline malj1

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7 415
  • "illegitimi non carborundum"
    • Mals Machine Tokens
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2020, 10:19:36 PM »
.... The stronger argument that it isn't Brexit-related is the "Yes".

Yes  ;D
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline eurocoin

  • Technical posts member
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4 022
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2020, 02:20:20 PM »
The STILL YES piece was likely done by the same person that did these 2 pieces with SAY YES stamped on them. The pieces were found in circulation in Swatragh (Northern Ireland) and East Kilbride (Scotland).



© Seoirse Mc Quillan - Coins, Coins, Coins (UK), Facebook.
© David Wilson - The Fifty Pence Coin Collectors Club, Facebook.

Offline brandm24

  • BR & M
  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1 410
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2020, 03:57:24 PM »
Thanks for the pictures, eurocoin. I think it's the same person too. I've started a folder with theses pictures and the Brexit stuff posted earlier. With your permission, I'd like to add these to it.

I haven't seen any of either offered anywhere, but would like to get a small collection of them together. The problem is that you'd find a lot of examples stamped to sell only with no thought of circulating them for propaganda value. The Irish Troubles pieces I collect are much older and it's fairly easy for me to recognize fakes...not so with these.

Bruce
Always Faithful

Offline eurocoin

  • Technical posts member
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4 022
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2020, 04:37:19 PM »
I've started a folder with theses pictures and the Brexit stuff posted earlier. With your permission, I'd like to add these to it.

Yes, that's absolutely fine.

Quote
I haven't seen any of either offered anywhere, but would like to get a small collection of them together. The problem is that you'd find a lot of examples stamped to sell only with no thought of circulating them for propaganda value. The Irish Troubles pieces I collect are much older and it's fairly easy for me to recognize fakes...not so with these.

I have indeed seen that on eBay there are some people that sell coins that they have countermarked themselves. All of the pieces that I show have been found in actual circulation (unless otherwise indicated). I think it will be better for you to buy directly from actual collectors on social media who have found a countermarked piece in circulation then from eBay.

There are a lot of collectors in the UK who check their change for commemoratives and whenever they come across something odd they post it on social media. It doesn't happen often that countermarked coins are being found. As these countermarks are not very sought-after, not errors and not extremely valuable (the only things many collectors are interested in these days), the collectors that find them are often willing to sell at a small premium. This is also the case for the owner of the piece on the right.

Offline brandm24

  • BR & M
  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1 410
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2020, 11:47:42 AM »
Many thanks for the advice, eurocoin. I'll have to look into the possibility of picking up some of these.

Bruce
Always Faithful

Offline eurocoin

  • Technical posts member
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4 022
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2020, 04:59:37 PM »
A piece was reported today, this time on a 2016-dated 1 pound coin. It was found in circulation in Bristol.


© Ezharullah Agha - Fifty Pence Coin Collectors Group 50p, Facebook.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 08:25:35 PM by eurocoin »

Offline eurocoin

  • Technical posts member
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4 022
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2020, 08:24:53 PM »
2 pound coin that was in May found in circulation in Hamilton.


© Saul Clinton - The Fifty Pence Coin Collectors Club 50p, Facebook.

Offline brandm24

  • BR & M
  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1 410
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2020, 12:32:44 PM »
Interesting coins related to Scottish independence? Is there a second referendum effort underway then?

Bruce
Always Faithful

Offline FosseWay

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 449
  • Göteborg, Sverige
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2020, 12:53:21 PM »
Not officially, but the SNP's flagship policy is independence and they are in government in Scotland, so the issue is never far away. Add to that the effects of Brexit and the fact that some people feel the Scottish government has handled the coronavirus issue better than Westminster. There is a constant undercurrent of pro-new referendum commentary, though how widespread such a desire is among the normal, not especially political population, I don't know.

Offline brandm24

  • BR & M
  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1 410
Re: Countermarks related to (proposed) Scottish independence referendums
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2020, 04:30:07 PM »
Not officially, but the SNP's flagship policy is independence and they are in government in Scotland, so the issue is never far away. Add to that the effects of Brexit and the fact that some people feel the Scottish government has handled the coronavirus issue better than Westminster. There is a constant undercurrent of pro-new referendum commentary, though how widespread such a desire is among the normal, not especially political population, I don't know.
If there's a "waiting period" between when a referendum can be attempted again, then that may be the reason it's not official ...yet. I'm sure it will be in time as it seems the government is determined to split. What the people want may not be of concern to them , but maybe it is.

Bruce
Always Faithful