Author Topic: unidentified islamic small copper coin  (Read 334 times)

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Offline saro

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unidentified islamic small copper coin
« on: May 15, 2020, 04:24:58 PM »
any suggestion for this small copper coin will be welcome...
(2 pictures with different lighting )
1,02g / 13 x 14mm
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Online aws22

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 05:18:12 PM »
Dear Saro, I can recognize two words only " Muhammad محمد " &  letter " K ك " of " Kabul كابل ".

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2020, 05:58:35 PM »
Thank you very much Maythem, I thought first to "Ahmad" but there is no trace of the initial alif,  "Muhammad" well fit with the tashdid visible at top (double "mim" of "Muhammad"). I wonder if the 3 dots are ornamental or not ?
Kabul on reverse is good option; at bottom it seems that there is "zarb"  and something else which doesn't look like an epithet.
Unfortunately, the coin is corroded...
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline saro

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 10:30:19 AM »
I am not certain but I think that is likely a small medal and not a coin, with "Muhammad" on a face and "Allah" on the other one (see upper right picture)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline saro

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 02:05:26 PM »
I am not certain but I think that is likely a small medal and not a coin, with "Muhammad" on a face and "Allah" on the other one (see upper right picture)
a coarse old version of this one...
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 01:04:50 PM »
The left picture is very close indeed, though your piece seems to have additional writing at 6 o'clock. The right picture is less convincing to me, even where the letters are clear.

If your presumption is correct, any museum in West Asia should have a collection of these. They look like items that travellers would carry for inspiration.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2020, 02:06:19 PM »
The left picture is very close indeed, though your piece seems to have additional writing at 6 o'clock. The right picture is less convincing to me, even where the letters are clear.

Yes Peter, I'm less and less convinced too by my guess.... if it was a religious medal, even humble, it shouldn't have been struck on a so irregular flan which looks very like a coin indeed.
From Maythem proposition (thanks again  :) ) I keep "Muhammad" for the obverse and half of "Kabul" : " "Ka.."  (  :D ) for the reverse and with a good light I think that we can in fact read "zarb Karin  ضرب کارین" (today Erzurum in Armenia ) and the only ruler "Muhammad" that I have found is the Ilkhan "Muhammad Khan" (736-739 AH / who have highly lowered the standard weight of his coins). nevertheless, the style is not ilkhan and th script  looks more recent...
It's a new guess  ::)

However, I don't see what could be the additional signs or letter under "Muhammad" (ornaments ?)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 04:25:26 PM by saro »
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online aws22

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2020, 04:31:06 PM »
Thank you Saro, the mint place is now identified, that leaves th the inscription under the word Muhammad which could be part of the word " Khan خان ". The letter " Kh خ " starts at 4 O'clock of bottom first photo, followed by a semi-circle " Kha خا ", then the letter " N ن ", is inside the semi-circle under the word " Muhammad محمد ". So it is " Muhammad Khan محمد خان " written in a nice calligraphic style. The two dots (not 3 dots), one for the letter " Kh خ " and the other for letter " N ن ".

Maythem
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 04:59:41 PM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2020, 05:56:50 PM »
Thank you Maythem, it's an interesting suggestion, I thought that was the circular border.
Looking attentively at the coin, with a grazing light there are well 3 separated dots which give something like the persian letter " ژ  ", with no signification here. "Muhammad" could also  well not refer to a ruler but to the Prophet ?
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online aws22

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2020, 06:59:07 PM »
Thank you Saro, it could be an eye deception, but " Khan خان " is one of the suggestions. It is common that dots are ornamental on many similar coins.

maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2020, 11:48:35 AM »
 Finally I think that this  small copper coin (akce ?) can be attributed with some confidence to the Giray dynasty of Crimea  and that کارین " has to be read as " گرای  " (Giray).
likely a coin of Muhammad Giray IV whose small silver akces show a similar "Muhammad" in a circle.

I groped a lot ::)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: unidentified islamic small copper coin
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2020, 12:41:22 PM »
Few things are as inspirational as just sitting around with like-minded people and speculating. That's what you did in this thread and you got inspired as a reward. I hope others will follow your example. If the opportunity exists, why not use it?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.