Magdalen Island

[mrbadexample]

Canadian Provinces Magdalen Island penny token, 1815.

It would be nice to know how many were minted, but I've not been able to establish that. 

[malj1]

The mintage is unknown, several casks were made (small barrels) but most must have been scrapped as they are hard to find today with just very worn examples being seen, as my one is!

[Figleaf]

McLachlan, in Canadian tokens and medals ISBN 0880000287, says: The islands had been granted, by George III, to Sir Isaac Coffin, who, before setting out for his only visit to his "kingdom" as he called it, ordered a large coinage of these pennies from Sir Edward Thomason of Birmingham. These he took with him and distributed them as loans to a number of his subjects.

Mal is right, though. The coins were on the British standard (though lightweight), while Canada was on a decimal standard, so they did not fit into the local currency and were too heavy to serve as cents; compare e.g. the VEXATOR CANADENSIS type, dated 1811. Therefore, Gresham's law must have made them as hard to find as they are. Yours is actually quite nice for type.

Peter

[Alex Island]

For general interest - there is such an assessment:

[malj1]

My example. copper 33.4mm 17.8g

[FosseWay]

The coins were on the British standard (though lightweight), while Canada was on a decimal standard, so they did not fit into the local currency and were too heavy to serve as cents; compare e.g. the VEXATOR CANADENSIS type, dated 1811. Therefore, Gresham's law must have made them as hard to find as they are. Yours is actually quite nice for type.

Canada used pennies or sous all the way through to the 1850s though - or am I missing something? Many of the halfpenny tokens from various Canadian provinces are similar in size and weight to at least the evasive and token halfpennies of the UK in the period 1775-1815.

[malj1]

Yes Canada adopted the decimal system in 1858, prior to this they used the imperial coinage.

I found this quote regarding the Magdalen Island coinage: The issue of these coins was controversial and quickly stopped by British authorities

I had read elsewhere that most were melted down for their scrap value.

[Figleaf]

No. In theory, Quebec used UK money, but in practice, it used a mixture of Spanish colonial and US money, supplemented by UK crowns and gold. The unit of account was the US dollar = US dollar. The UK shilling was known as a quarter dollar, reflecting the traditional rate of 4 shillings to the peso. French coins still circulated in 1796, but they were no longer mentioned in the rates in 1836. The change to official decimal coins in 1858 merely acknowledged a situation in which UK small change never played a role.

Peter

[Figleaf]

The reason for the "heavy" coppers is that when the 19th century type tokens were banned in the UK, they were massively shipped to the colonies, including Canada. Collectors will assign them to the UK, except where the design is so neutral that it is no longer connected to a specific country, such as the Wellington tokens. Some of these are UK, others Canadian. Years ago, I did an article separating them. The issuers wanted to float the "heavy" coins, sometimes marked as a penny as 2 cent pieces, but Canadians resisted that successfully, accepting them for a cent only.

The sous denominated tokens are the equivalent of a cent.

Peter

[mrbadexample]

Thanks all. I guess the actual mintage is largely irrelevant if a quantity were scrapped. It seems clear from the condition of the survivors that they were heavily used somewhere.

I didn't know the manufacturer, but interesting that at one time Sir Edward Thomason worked for / with Matthew Boulton at the Soho mint.

Yours is actually quite nice for type.

I wasn't convinced at first, but the more I see... 

[Henk]

An articla about the Magdalen token can be found in the "Coinage of the America's Proceedings" which can be found here: Canada's Money: Coinage of the Americas Conference No. 8 : Kleeberg, John M. :

This article gives extensive information about the issuer an auction/catalog appearances ot this token. It does not describe the monetary value. However I am certain that it was one penny. The currency system (money of account) used in Canada during the first quarter of the 19th century was based on Pounds, Shillings and Pence, like the then British system. As a spanish milled dollar was, in Canada, rated at 5/0 instead of at 4/6 as in Britain. The Canada pound, known as Halifax Sterling, was worth 90% of a Britsh Pound Sterling. As a consequence a British Crown piece of 5/0 was rated as 5/6 in Canada. Further information can be found in: A.B. McCullogh, Money and Exchange in Canada to 1900, Dundurn Press 1984.

[Figleaf]

Yes, the Magdalen coin is a penny. However, Magdalen island is part of Quebec. Over 90% of the population speaks French. The Halifax and USD issue played out in other parts of Canada. In the end, it separated only Newfoundland from the rest of what is now Canada. The coins of Newfoundland look like Canadian coins of the type struck after 1858, but the two represent a different dollar.

Peter