Author Topic: What is an island?  (Read 1643 times)

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Offline malj1

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2020, 08:04:39 AM »
The token itself refers to the Isle of Dogs, but there is a note in Williamson, that I have seen elsewhere, that it may refer to the Isle of Ducks which was on the south side of the Thames.
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2020, 08:16:39 AM »
Interesting... I had never heard of the Isle of Ducks. I seem to have misplaced the Isle of Dogs as well - it was clearly in Middlesex and not Essex.

The photo on the previous page clearly has JARVIS WINSOR but Williamson has JAMES. Is this a mistake or are there two diffferent tokens?

Offline Alex Island

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2020, 08:34:37 AM »
To develop the topic, I’ll add that I collected my list and photos of tokens and coins/medals of “nonexistent” British Isles in a similar style:

1 - Axholme island ( isle of Axholme )
2 - Axon island ( isle of Axon )
3 - Burnt island ( Burntisland )
4 - Cobholm island
5 - Ely island ( isle of Ely ) ( Epworth isle )
6 - Haxie island ( isle of Haxie )
7 - Doggs (Ducks) island ( Isle of Doggs )
8 - Thanet island ( Isle Of Thanet ) ( Tennet )
9 - Purbeck island ( Isle of Purbeck )

I wonder what other islands "do not exist" and how to supplement this list.. ?

ps. Isle of Dogs - Wikipedia

Quote
Anton van den Wyngaerde's "Panorama of London" dated 1543 depicts and refers to the Isle of Dogs. Records show that ships preparing to carry the English royal household to Calais in 1520 docked at the southern bank of the island. The name Isle of Dogges occurs in the Thamesis Descriptio of 1588, applied to a small island in the south-western part of the peninsula. The name is next applied to the Isle of Dogs Fam (originally known as Pomfret Manor) shown on a map of 1683.
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Offline malj1

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2020, 08:40:31 AM »
Interesting... I had never heard of the Isle of Ducks. I seem to have misplaced the Isle of Dogs as well - it was clearly in Middlesex and not Essex.

The photo on the previous page clearly has JARVIS WINSOR but Williamson has JAMES. Is this a mistake or are there two diffferent tokens?

I take that as a misreading of a poorer example of the tokens as everything seems correct.

Wikipedia mentions that:  The south of the isle opposite Greenwich was once known as North Greenwich, could this be the reason for Southwark? ???
Malcolm
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Offline malj1

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2020, 08:46:03 AM »
Portsea Island seems a bit iffy!
Malcolm
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Offline Alex Island

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2020, 08:59:04 AM »
Portsea Island seems a bit iffy!

Portsea Island - Wikipedia

I collected 5 or 6 series of different types of tokens on this island .. And this is officially a full-fledged island, so it is not on the list ..
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2020, 09:26:13 AM »
Portsea Island is definitely a real island. It's perhaps more obvious on old maps such as here, but the channel still exists today (use the map fader and slider function for the modern overlay).

Offline Alex Island

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2020, 09:28:17 AM »
There are still tokens on the Coral island, which probably also "does not exist."
More precisely, it exists somewhere in England ..in Blackpool ?
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Offline malj1

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2020, 01:03:28 AM »
Yes from an amusement arcade in Blackpool.
Malcolm
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Offline pk72

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2020, 03:49:17 PM »
... though slightly late in adding a comment... in accordance with International Maritime Law, islands should be capable of supporting life, thereby differentiating islands from rocks. This is important to help define baselines from where Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZs) are measured.... of course this is only academic and not related to coins !! 

Offline brandm24

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2020, 04:29:29 PM »
... though slightly late in adding a comment... in accordance with International Maritime Law, islands should be capable of supporting life, thereby differentiating islands from rocks. This is important to help define baselines from where Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZs) are measured.... of course this is only academic and not related to coins !!
Not related to coins as you say, pk72, but very interesting nevertheless. :)

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Offline Alex Island

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2020, 06:01:12 PM »
... though slightly late in adding a comment... in accordance with International Maritime Law, islands should be capable of supporting life, thereby differentiating islands from rocks. This is important to help define baselines from where Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZs) are measured.... of course this is only academic and not related to coins !!

 :) Let's just say .. In order to have the right to issue passports to migrants, to demand representation in the United Nations Organization, and the like, a piece of rock on which you can plant your flag and declare all the surrounding waters a "neutral zone" for an "independent state" is enough.  :)

If we develop this topic further, then we need to limit our understanding of the word "island" to being on planet Earth. Because the question of "islands flying in the sky" has existed for many centuries. One example is the Republic of Coronis, which has reserved eight islands flying in the sky, that is, asteroids .. They issued their coins, grant citizenship and passports, taking advantage of legal incidents in international law.  ;D



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Offline Figleaf

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2020, 06:13:08 PM »
In order to have the right to issue passports to migrants, to demand representation in the United Nations Organization, and the like, a piece of rock on which you can plant your flag and declare all the surrounding waters a "neutral zone" for an "independent state" is enough.

That is completely untrue. International law (the Montevideo Convention of 1933) holds that a nation must have a defined territory, a permanent population, an effective government and (though this part is a majority, not a consensus opinion) a degree of international recognition. Since every spot on earth except for the two poles is claimed by at least one member of the UN, there is no easy way to create a new UN member or an independent state.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 04:29:08 PM by Figleaf »
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Offline Prosit

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2020, 09:37:07 PM »
Ah, but anyone can make up a crap coin and have it minted and call it by any fanciful country name.
Weather they might be prosecuted is another story.

Seems to me an island is surrounded by water so we all live on islands  >:D
What is an island and generally accepted as an island or should be is the stuff useless debates are made of...imo

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That is completely untrue. International law holds that a nation must have a territory, a permanent population and (though this part is a majority, not a consensus opinion) a degree of international recognition. Since every spot on earth except for the two poles is claimed by at least one member of the UN, there is no easy way to create a new UN member or an independent state.

Peter

Offline Alex Island

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Re: What is an island?
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2021, 02:38:20 PM »
On Wikipedia, I noticed this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_by_area

On one of the numismatic forums, I noticed interest in this page.. - https://www.cointalk.com/threads/coins-of-islands-and-archipelagos.373326/
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