Author Topic: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669  (Read 567 times)

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Offline bgriff99

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China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« on: March 06, 2020, 06:58:21 AM »
Obverse reads Kang Xi Tong Bao.    Wuchang was merged with Hankow to make the city of Wuhan.   Even in ancient times it was an industrial center, known particularly for metal smelting and working.  Diameter 26.5mm, weight 4.07g.

Offline THCoins

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2020, 09:33:17 AM »
That's a very straight link from history to the headline news over the last weeks !
Again confronts me with my ignorance about Chinese coinage. The brassy smooth surface of the outer ring, with the sandy surface of the inner part.. If i would have had to make a guess  whether genuine or copy, i'd probably have said likely modern.  :-\

Offline Figleaf

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2020, 10:28:50 AM »
You have a point. Modern imitations also have this grainy look of the deeper areas. However, in the imitations, the dips and dots are far more regular. My guess is the the engravers of the mother coins received a smooth disc to work on and removed metal with tiny chisels.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rinhen

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2020, 11:25:41 PM »
Coin are genuine, yet it is from Jiang-Xi province, the capital city Nan-Chang, mintmark “CHANG”, nothing to do with Hupeh(Hubei) nor the Capital city WuChang. Furthermore, Hupeh province didn’t mint coin during the Kangxi era. HuPeh started to mint coin after Kangxi era, from Yongzheng era, but the mintmark is “wu” from “Wu Chang”.

Offline bgriff99

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2020, 06:01:56 AM »
During Kang-xi, the mint at Nanchang operated only from 1667-70.   It used the character 江 jiang, for the province name.    Wuchang mint operated 1667-70 and 1687-99.   Coins are found for all those years.   Even Schjoth in 1929 had that correct.   What is your reference?   Here is one from 1697-98.    Diameter 24.8mm, weight 2.87g.

Offline taylorandheaton

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2020, 07:30:53 AM »
During Kang-xi, the mint at Nanchang operated only from 1667-70.   It used the character 江 jiang, for the province name.    Wuchang mint operated 1667-70 and 1687-99.   Coins are found for all those years.   Even Schjoth in 1929 had that correct.   What is your reference?   Here is one from 1697-98.    Diameter 24.8mm, weight 2.87g.
昌for Kangxi=Wuchang Board Mint ,Prov Hupei& 昌 for Qianlong=Nanchang Board Mint,Prov JiangXi! Same “昌”,but 武Wu昌≠南Nan昌!Cheers


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Offline Rinhen

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2020, 11:06:49 AM »
Hubei (province) has mint during Shunzhi era, in the city “Xiang-yang/Hsiangyang”, mintmark “xiang/Hsiang”,KM#265, but not “Chang”. At the 14th year of Shunzhi (1658) stopped, after that, Hubei province didn’t mint coin until Qianlong era (with the mintmark “wu” in the capital city Wuchan) 
JiangXi (province) start to mint coin in the capital city Nanchang with the mintmark “Chang” since Shunzhi era until the end of Qing dynasty never changes. I understand the Chinese word “Chang” is confusing, yet the left side Manchurian word clearly reviews. I attached (image from Shouxi) a copper coin of JiangXi province minted during Kuang Hsu era, please compare the mintmark in Manchurian. BTW, the kM catalog is wrong, KM#256, reverse Ch’ang above and KM#303, reverse Manchu cang at left. Both coins described as from mint Wuch’ang, should be from Nanchang. 1902年江西省造光绪元宝当十铜币,NGC MS63BN] [url=http://data.shouxi.com/item.php?id=285674]1902年江西省造光绪元宝当十铜币,NGC MS63BN[/url]

Offline THCoins

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2020, 01:21:51 PM »
I lack the knowledge to weigh the evidence presented. But it is good to see these coins getting some serious discussion here on the board for the benefit of all the members. Thanks !

Anthony

Offline bgriff99

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2020, 02:20:49 PM »
Court and mint records for the openings and closings of the Wuchang mint still exist.   They were recorded in many places, and are used by numismatists to determine what mints cast coins.   See here Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Hubei, Wuchang <font size=+1>ᠴᠠᠩ</font>
  for a more complete listing of Hubei cash during Kangxi.   I still have more years waiting to be posted.   

Offline Figleaf

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2020, 07:46:43 PM »
for a more complete listing of Hubei cash during Kangxi.   I still have more years waiting to be posted.

Those posts would be very welcome, just as this discussion. I remember the times when Remmelts was the only source for cash coins. So much progress made, so much progress still to be made.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline SquareEarth

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2020, 06:27:00 PM »
I talked to a coin seller in Nanjing, China, he told me that inexpensive cash coins are often polished on the surface with a buffing machine. This explains the clean, modern-looking surface in many otherwise antique coins.

Tong Bao_Tsuho_Tong Bo_Thong Bao

Offline taylorandheaton

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2020, 02:39:19 AM »
I talked to a coin seller in Nanjing, China, he told me that inexpensive cash coins are often polished on the surface with a buffing machine. This explains the clean, modern-looking surface in many otherwise antique coins.
Not all of them,depand on its condition.




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Offline bgriff99

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Re: China, Hubei Province, Wuchang 1669
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2020, 08:03:43 AM »
"Inexpensive cash coins" is liable to be those just cast.   We call them souvenir coins, although they are presented as genuine by sellers.   They are put in a tumbler to round off the edges, make them look worn, then surface buffed a bit, maybe given patina.   Modern fakes intended to actually fool collectors may be given extensive treatment to make a deceptive patina.   
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 08:25:50 AM by bgriff99 »