Help pls！Peter Menzel Reference book

[taylorandheaton]

Hi All，
I need to check a German token info. from Peter Menzel books. Does someone have below book and help ？ Thx in advance.



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[Henk]

I have the book and also the newer editions and I am willing to help with any questions you might have.

[taylorandheaton]

I have the book and also the newer editions and I am willing to help with any questions you might have.

Many thanks Henk！Could you check Menzel 4287.1.2 and let me know what its commentating note or any pictures for this token please？Cheers Tian

[jezuss]

the numbers in the catalog change with every new edition...
and there are no pictures in the new editions.

[taylorandheaton]

the numbers in the catalog change with every new edition...
and there are no pictures in the new editions.

Many thanks! Now just post its PCGS picture for all,wish to get more info.



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[jezuss]

as there are no pictures in the catalog, it is difficult to find a token without text...

[taylorandheaton]

as there are no pictures in the catalog, it is difficult to find a token without text...

Thanks again！


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[Figleaf]

I presume PCGS would have the latest edition and the catalogue number is known. That should help, shouldn't it?

Peter

[jezuss]

the catalog number changes in every new edition of the catalog...

[jezuss]

4287.1 is a 18mm beer token from j. hahn in the catalog from 2005
in the catalog from 2014 it is a 20.5mm beer token from brauerei k gotschalk.

[Figleaf]

Menzel changes the numbering because he inserts newly discovered types. So there are your indications: a 10 pfennig from an issuer whose name starts with H, or maybe two or three letters beyond in the alfabet, with a military sailor.

Peter

[Henk]

I cannot check the entry in the "old" Menzel catalog as I have stored it and only have the new edition at hand now.

First of all the attribution to Kiau Chau is daubtful as tokens from this area are denominated in cents, not in pfennig as stated on the holder. In the newest Menzel (2018) the token is not listed for Kiau Chau. It is listed however as number 2951 with issuer Paul Herpig, owner of a clothing store in Berlin. This token exists with several varieties of the reverse.

I attach a picture of one of these tokens.

These tokens are also listed, and illustrated, in the book: Berlin Marken und Zeichen by W. Hasselman (1987).This book also lists a small medal, identifying the man on the obverse of this token as: Schuster Wilhelm Voigt, Der Falsche Hauptmann von Köpenick. This is a shoemaker who dressed up as an officer of the German Army and commanded a group of soldiers to assist him in confiscating the money box in the town hall of Köpenick near Berlin. He was later arrested and his story was publicised widely and aroused lots of hilarious comments.

Can you post a picture of the reverse?

[taylorandheaton]

Menzel changes the numbering because he inserts newly discovered types. So there are your indications: a 10 pfennig from an issuer whose name starts with H, or maybe two or three letters beyond in the alfabet, with a military sailor.

Peter

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[Henk]

This reverse identifies it as Menzel (2018) 2951.4

[taylorandheaton]

I cannot check the entry in the "old" Menzel catalog as I have stored it and only have the new edition at hand now.

First of all the attribution to Kiau Chau is daubtful as tokens from this area are denominated in cents, not in pfennig as stated on the holder. In the newest Menzel (2018) the token is not listed for Kiau Chau. It is listed however as number 2951 with issuer Paul Herpig, owner of a clothing store in Berlin. This token exists with several varieties of the reverse.

I attach a picture of one of these tokens.

These tokens are also listed, and illustrated, in the book: Berlin Marken und Zeichen by W. Hasselman (1987).This book also lists a small medal, identifying the man on the obverse of this token as: Schuster Wilhelm Voigt, Der Falsche Hauptmann von Köpenick. This is a shoemaker who dressed up as an officer of the German Army and commanded a group of soldiers to assist him in confiscating the money box in the town hall of Köpenick near Berlin. He was later arrested and his story was publicised widely and aroused lots of hilarious comments.

Can you post a picture of the reverse?

Many thanks for offering helpful info！


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