Author Topic: Civic Copper of Bandar mint / "Ya 'Ali" over a lion : Val. 22 & 23  (Read 202 times)

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Offline maudry

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The closest match I found is Val.22 p. 130/131.
The lion is very similar. The script on the other side.. well difficult to say for me.
Size: 19X31mm
Weight: 10.00gr
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 09:46:18 AM by saro »

Offline saro

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2019, 10:12:30 AM »
The closest match I found is Val.22 p. 130/131.
I agree with you, the lion's design is exactly the one of Val. 22 & 23. The mint name is really hard to decipher ! "Bandar 'Abbas" or Bandar Abushahr" ?  it seems to me that "shir /shahr ? "is present over "falus   ???
It seems that there is something written over the lion's head ?

An interesting coin and a scarce one no doubt  :applause:
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2019, 04:26:07 PM »
Amazing, what you can still find out about these coins.

KM did not catalogue the Afghan and Iranian civic issues. Yet, there must be a finite number of types. Are we getting anywhere near a complete overview? In other words, do you still find new types regularly?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2019, 06:20:27 PM »
KM did not catalogue the Afghan and Iranian civic issues.
Some are listed in old KM editions : 60  coins in 1985 / 36 in 1994...  I wonder why not in recent ones ?

Yet, there must be a finite number of types. Are we getting anywhere near a complete overview? In other words, do you still find new types regularly?
Of course there must be a finite number of types, the question is how many ? !! some mints are really prolific and new types regularly come to light and I suppose that many other are still sleeping in private collections, never published...
The interest of numismatists for these issues is quite recent and my feeling is that we are getting today a good overview but a comprehensive catalogue would be only a dream.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline andyg

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2019, 10:51:04 PM »
Amazing, what you can still find out about these coins.

KM did not catalogue the Afghan and Iranian civic issues.

There are a reasonable number of them in the latest issues (many still missing though)
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline saro

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2019, 09:52:43 AM »
It seems that there is something written over the lion's head ?

Could be well the invocation " یا علی  / Ya 'Ali"
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline andyg

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2019, 10:04:33 AM »
Some are listed in old KM editions : 60  coins in 1985 / 36 in 1994...  I wonder why not in recent ones ?
Of course there must be a finite number of types, the question is how many ? !! some mints are really prolific and new types regularly come to light and I suppose that many other are still sleeping in private collections, never published...
The interest of numismatists for these issues is quite recent and my feeling is that we are getting today a good overview but a comprehensive catalogue would be only a dream.

KM is now up to 165 types of Iranian civic coppers (I counted just now)
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline saro

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2019, 11:20:16 AM »
KM is now up to 165 types of Iranian civic coppers (I counted just now)
Good news  :) , 268 are listed by Alaedini.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline saro

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2019, 12:18:19 PM »
when trying to decipher a mint name over what could be read as "falus", it appears that this coin has been overstruck and there is not a text but rather remains of an animal' design ... With a 80 rotation, it seems to me that's a monkey with a long tail, very close to the one found on a civic copper of Yazd.
I confirm "Ya 'Ali" over the lion .
my guess : a coin of Bandar ? or Abushahr overstruck on a coin of another city ? (Yazd ? why not ?...)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline maudry

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Re: Civic Copper with lion
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2019, 02:14:29 PM »
Wow, that is really great how you can find things on these coins. I would never have seen that monkey although I had a small guess it could have been struck over another coin.
I confirm the script over the lion.
Val.22 has shows also a fragment of this script.
Thank you very much!

Offline saro

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Re: Civic Copper of Bandar mint / "Ya 'Ali" over a lion : Val. 22 & 23
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2019, 10:51:45 PM »
Host coin and overstamp are both likely from Yazd : the invocation "Ya 'Ali" is not common on civic coppers and the only example I have been able to find is this one. The similarity of the lion's design of the Bandar coin is probably only a coincidence.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 09:00:06 AM by saro »
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)