Author Topic: Italian fakes or restrikes  (Read 377 times)

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Offline Desibot

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Italian fakes or restrikes
« on: October 24, 2019, 01:05:03 PM »
Hi guys got a few Italian i dont know much about  these  coins would like to know if restrikes or fakes i will add them all in here if allowed as one topic

Thankyou

Offline Desibot

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2019, 01:08:04 PM »
Weight is 21 grams

Offline <k>

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2019, 01:39:08 PM »
See this post: http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,43513.msg273137.html#msg273137

and scroll down to the post beneath it.

Then check the numisa entry to correct weight, size and metal:

20 Lire - Vittorio Emanuele III - Italy - Numista

Offline Desibot

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2019, 02:03:18 PM »
Thanks k
For the info

After measuring again

Size is 35.6 mm
Weight is 21.0 g exactly according to my scales 👍

The weight on numista is

20grams
And size is 35.5

Regards

Thanks
 

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2019, 02:17:12 PM »
The discrepancies of size and weight are too small to be an issue. This is just a normal (quite common) coin. The brown "dot" is probably due to glue: the coin was glued to a pin, so that it could be worn on the clothes. The spot can likely be removed with acetone, unless the glue has reacted with the metal.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2019, 02:19:38 PM »
In my opinion this piece is a fake from China.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2019, 02:27:11 PM »
On what grounds?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2019, 03:17:17 PM »
The coin has a very dark patina and spots. For a coin that has had such a hard life you would expect to see wear and scratches, yet there is almost a complete lack of that. The impression and edge are too sharp. The patina also does not at all look like the one I would expect to see on a silver coin. It is too equally distributed across the surface of the coin. In my opinion it is a fake from China with fake patina. I do not rule out that the big spot on the reverse was caused by someone trying to test with chemicals if it was made of silver.

Offline Desibot

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2019, 05:14:47 PM »
Cleaned coin with bit soap and gentle rub lot of grime on it

Offline andyg

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 05:29:50 PM »
This is just a normal (quite common) coin.

These are not common coins....!  Quite scarce in fact.
FWIW I think it's fake too,  there are numerous fakes of these 20 Lire.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Henk

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2019, 05:47:23 PM »
A weight of 21 grams is 1 gram too heavy, which is outside specification. Maybe the coin is made from a base metal and silver plated. In that case it should be to thick as the weight is correct (too much in fact). Can you measure the thickness? If it is silver plated this can sometimes be detected by making an incision in the rim using a sharp knife and looking at the colour of the underlying metal. If the coin is genuine this is of course not recommended!

Offline Desibot

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2019, 07:52:15 PM »
Hi i did measure thickness its 2.76mm
I does feel solid and not plated to me


Regards 

Offline Henk

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Re: Italian fakes or restrikes
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2019, 08:03:24 PM »
With the data you provide I calculate a specific weight of 7,64. The calculated value is a bit too low because the actual thickness, the average value should be used, is less than the measured value because of the relief of the coin. A deduction of 0,4 mm is usually a reasonable estimation. So the diameter becomes 2,36 mm which gives a specific weight of 8,94. The specific gravity for silver (0.835) is 10,2. The value for copper is 8,9. The conclusion is that the specific weight is way below that of silver so it must be a plated coin and thus a forgery.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 09:55:51 PM by Henk »