Author Topic: Modern coinage of Brunei  (Read 563 times)

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Offline Pabitra

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2019, 06:52:41 AM »
the 2017 set is minted for circulation , or only for collectors ?

The mintage is very low.
If eBay prices are any indication then one can assume that the set was for collectors only.

Offline <k>

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2019, 06:03:35 PM »
The mintage is very low.
If eBay prices are any indication then one can assume that the set was for collectors only.

Are you sure about that? Brunei has a small population, estimated at around 423,000 in 2016. It also uses the Singapore dollar. Therefore a large mintage is not needed for a single year.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2019, 06:49:26 PM »
Pabitra has a good point. The variable cost of minting (metal, maintenance of the machines, distribution) is quite low. Fixed cost (making dies, storing, paying staff with a fixed contract, maintenance and repair of the mint building, security) becomes affordable only with a large number of coins made. Short series are loss-makers, unless they can be sold above par. In other words, if there is low demand, you mint series for the get-rich-quickly crowd and risk the ire of collectors. Ask the French mint.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline <k>

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2019, 07:24:23 PM »
For its size and population Brunei is a hugely rich country, and the Sultan is hugely extravagant. Why wouldn't he have approved the minting of some circulation coins to celebrate his golden jubilee? The cost would have been trivial.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2019, 09:28:59 PM »
You confuse the wealth of the ruler (long considered the richest person on earth) and the wealth of the country. The latest number of the per capita GDP I could find is $28,290.59 (2017). That would qualify as light green on the map here. Sure, the sultan could have ordered a series of coins for the occasion, but why would he bother with how they are distributed? Meanwhile, his minister of finance needs to cover the cost.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2019, 09:59:33 PM »
The Monetary Authority of Brunei has only ever released the mintage figure of the 50 sen coin in the series, which was 500,000 pieces. I understand that all of the coins in the series are/were available for face value. Furthermore 3,000 coin sets were issued for collectors at a price of 20 dollars. I have no reason to doubt that these are circulating commemorative coins.

Offline <k>

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2019, 10:27:51 PM »
You confuse the wealth of the ruler (long considered the richest person on earth) and the wealth of the country.

And so do the rulers of such countries, often enough.  ;)

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Sure, the sultan could have ordered a series of coins for the occasion, but why would he bother with how they are distributed?

And likewise, why wouldn't he? Prime minister Edward Heath of the UK ordered the EEC 50 pence commemorative of 1973 to be issued in their millions. I'm sure the sultan is at least as vain as Heath.

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Meanwhile, his minister of finance needs to cover the cost.

Which, as I said, is trivial, especially compared to all the other expenses of even tiny Brunei. We are talking coins here, after all, not nuclear installations or space missions.  :)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 10:48:23 PM by <k> »

Offline <k>

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2019, 10:30:10 PM »
The Monetary Authority of Brunei has only ever released the mintage figure of the 50 sen coin in the series, which was 500,000 pieces. I understand that all of the coins in the series are/were available for face value. Furthermore 3,000 coin sets were issued for collectors at a price of 20 dollars. I have no reason to doubt that these are circulating commemorative coins.

So some coins circulated and some were sold as collector sets. My inclusion of the coins in this topic, which is about circulation coins, is therefore correct.  8)

Offline malawi

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2019, 11:51:25 PM »
if I understand correctly this man has found the 50 cents in circulation

Brunei Coins ( Rare Finding ) - YouTube

Offline <k>

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2019, 12:47:24 AM »
Good to know that!

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2019, 11:14:10 AM »
I am not out to spoil anyone's fun, but to set the record straight. The video gives no numbers, but it looks like he found a single coin in a big pile. That's not evidence of circulation, but anecdote.

Your arguments don't hold water. You can't compare a competitive politician to an absolute ruler. Remember that Pabitra's original argument was that eBay prices suggest they didn't circulate. All I did was give a rational background to that argument. Even if you had been able to destroy my reasoning, Pabitra's observation still stands. It is obvious that they were not meant to circulate and a few escaped to circulation anyhow, as is normal in any country. I remember reports of maundy threepences found in circulation in the UK in the 1920s.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2019, 12:00:30 PM »
It is obvious that they were not meant to circulate and a few escaped to circulation anyhow, as is normal in any country.

A very strange conclusion.

Offline Pabitra

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2019, 12:39:18 PM »
if I understand correctly this man has found the 50 cents in circulation

Brunei Coins ( Rare Finding ) - YouTube

It says "rare finding".
If rare no longer means what it meant ever since I was a little child then

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h5rlvrQHZ9Y

I am moving to USA to collect few gold coins from circulation 😄😜

Offline eurocoin

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2019, 12:50:27 PM »
Based on the information we have about the 50 sen coin, we can conclude that these coins were produced for general circulation. 500,000 pieces were produced of which 92,000 were handed out to students (in a blister packaging) and 408,000 were released into general circulation. 3,000 pieces were released in coin sets for collectors. See here.

408,000 may not seem to be a lot but for a country like Brunei it is a lot. Some of the standard circulation coins they issued in the past had mintages that are way lower than this.

People who believe that a country like Brunei produced 500,000 or 400,000 of these coins to only sell them to collectors are not 100%.

An email has been sent to the Monetary Authority of Brunei for further information on the coins.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 01:12:32 PM by eurocoin »

Offline <k>

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Re: Modern coinage of Brunei
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2019, 01:03:45 PM »
I am not out to spoil anyone's fun, but to set the record straight. The video gives no numbers, but it looks like he found a single coin in a big pile. That's not evidence of circulation, but anecdote.

Your arguments don't hold water. You can't compare a competitive politician to an absolute ruler. Remember that Pabitra's original argument was that eBay prices suggest they didn't circulate. All I did was give a rational background to that argument. Even if you had been able to destroy my reasoning, Pabitra's observation still stands. It is obvious that they were not meant to circulate and a few escaped to circulation anyhow, as is normal in any country. I remember reports of maundy threepences found in circulation in the UK in the 1920s.

Peter

This a debate. It is a vigorous search for truth. It is not about destroying a person's reasoning or "spoiling anyone's fun". So let us continue in an open-minded spirit.  :)

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Your arguments don't hold water. You can't compare a competitive politician to an absolute ruler.

Of course I can. Both are human beings, with personalities subject to pride and vanity. Heath was proud of what he saw as his personal achievement of bringing the UK into the EEC. The Sultan was no doubt proud of his 50 years as ruler. Absolute rulers tend to take an interest in a lot of details, large and small, from coins to which of their citizens should be subject to capital punishment - as we saw over the controversy about gays in Brunei.

Only the Brunei authorities have the answer to our questions. Eurocoin's figures look official, though I know he does not always like revealing his sources.