Author Topic: thin coin believed silver and Afghan  (Read 512 times)

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Offline jkk

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thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« on: August 12, 2019, 01:01:17 AM »
This is also from a large collection gathered in Afghanistan. The symbol on one side seems to confirm Afghan origin. 4.56g, 24.6mm; very thin, 1.23mm. The Kalima is obvious enough on one side. Any idea what it is?


Jonathan

Offline Manzikert

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 03:47:46 PM »
Timurid, Hosein Baiqara, 1469-1506 (873-911 H), tanka, Herat mint. These are often dated, but at lower left on the obverse which is not visible on your coin. This type was struck c.1490-1506.

Alan

Offline Figleaf

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 04:07:00 PM »
That would be MWI 965 or 966. You have an incredible memory, Manzikert.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline jkk

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 04:08:26 PM »
Thanks, Alan. Can you recommend good reading on Timurid coinage, in print or online? (I read French and Spanish, if it matters.) Is MWI within reason to seek acquiring?
Jonathan

Offline Figleaf

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 04:15:01 PM »
MWI (and its companion volume MACW) is expensive, incomplete and not up to date. I hesitated before I splurged on it. However, now, I am quite happy with it. I believe it to be the only illustrated (contrary to Album's check list) global overview of coinage with Arabic script. At this time, it's your best chance of finding a coin with Arabic characters quickly and once you have a general idea of where to look, Zeno will give you more up-to-date information. That's all very personal, so your experience may vary.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Online aws22

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 04:16:56 PM »
Dear jkk, the legend on both sides as follows, the date is not visible:
Timurid, Sultan Husayn Bayqara, Silver Tanka, Herat Mint (873-911 AH/1469-1506 AD)
Obverse: Center circle “ به بود هراة “, bih bud Herat, meaning “prosperity (referring to the coin) Herat".
Margin reads: Al-Sultan Al-Azam Abu'l Ghazi Sultan Husayn bahadur khalad Allah Ta’ala  mulkahu wa sultanahu Sanat (year?).
السلطان الاعظم  ابو الغازي سلطان حسين  بهادر خلد الله تعالى ملكه  و سلطانه / سنة
Reverse: Kalima in a shape of square and the names of 4 orthodox caliphs with their titles around in margin:
أَبا بَكْرٍ الصِّدِّيقُ \ عُمَرُ الْفَارُوق \ عُثْمَانُ ذُو النُّورَيْنِ \ عَلِيٌّ الْمُرْتَضَى )

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline jkk

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 05:00:13 PM »
Maythem, much appreciated. I feel a lot better knowing I did not simply miss the date. Seems logical that the missing year comes after Sanat.

Peter, I did some digging through the forum resources and did not find a reference for MWI. If I knew what that stood for, though, I could seek it out on my own--same for MACW.
Jonathan

Offline Figleaf

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 06:56:30 PM »
Sorry, here goes:

MWI = Mitchiner, Michael, World of Islam, ISBN 0904173151
MACW = Mitchiner, Michael, the Ancient and Classical World, ISBN 090417316X

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline jkk

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 07:02:24 PM »
Sorry, here goes:

MWI = Mitchiner, Michael, World of Islam, ISBN 0904173151
MACW = Mitchiner, Michael, the Ancient and Classical World, ISBN 090417316X

I came, I saw, I gulped at the prices. :)
Jonathan

Offline Figleaf

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 07:21:55 PM »
Don't worry, the J. Willard Marriott Library in Salt Lake City has a copy ;D

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline jkk

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2019, 07:32:35 PM »
Heh. A bit of a drive from Portland, Oregon to northern Utah, and not sure the SLC folks would let me take out a library card not residing there. I did check my local library system and no luck, so I just issued a request to borrow from the ANA library. They were great on Tye (which then of course naturally great piles of life intervened, and by the time I shoveled out, their copy was back and I had my own Tye arrival from the author himself).
Jonathan

Offline Manzikert

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2019, 10:32:34 PM »
jkk, if you need anything looking up in Mitchiner I have the set, acquired back in the 1970s and 80s so therefore much more reasonably priced :)

Peter, I am very lucky that my memory is very visual, so I just checked my database for Timurids and scrolled through. Luckily I have half a dozen of these from Herat and Asterabad, four of which have legible dates incuding a rare reduced or half tanka of 906 H from Herat, 2.23 gm, 21 mm, below.

Alan

Online aws22

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 03:38:39 AM »
Thank you Alan for showing the second coin, the date " 906 ۹۰۶ " and the text are clear. The word " Sanat سنة " is there at the extreme bottom. Another difference is the expression " خلد الله ملكه وسلطانه kahllad Allah mulkahu wa sultanahu ", in the first coin, it is " خلد الله تعالى ملكه وسلطانه khalad Allah Ta’ala  mulkahu wa sultanahu ". The word " تعالى Ta'ala " under the word " ملكه mulkahu " has been removed in the second coin. The meaning of the expression " الله تعالى " is "Almighty God".

Maythem
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 03:52:18 AM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline Figleaf

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 07:37:46 AM »
I would argue that the difference in text (thank you Maythem!) is enough to make them different types.

I'd love to have a look at your collection, Alan, and I don't think I'd be the only one.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline jkk

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Re: thin coin believed silver and Afghan
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 07:55:57 AM »
jkk, if you need anything looking up in Mitchiner I have the set, acquired back in the 1970s and 80s so therefore much more reasonably priced :)

Very kind of you, and even when the ANA Library copy arrives, I'm pretty sure I won't fully understand how to look up everything. Much appreciated. Wish I'd picked up the set back then, but...well, those were my teens. :)
Jonathan