Author Topic: The Tye#54 Jital type, just some research in progress.  (Read 166 times)

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Offline THCoins

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The Tye#54 Jital type, just some research in progress.
« on: June 05, 2019, 06:17:58 PM »
I did not aquire many new coins lately. But i have not been fully idle the last months. Getting into the more complicated part of the Jitals field means that advancement is a bit slower. So i thought to just post some work in progress.
In a previous thread i already tried to draw attention to some later Jital types, on which knowledge is scarce. In the former thread i attempted to show the possible evolution of the Tye#35 type from the Tye#21 type as a possible ancestor.
At the moment i am focussing ont the Tye#54 type, of which two examples are shown below.
Now this poses even a bigger problem than the Tye#35 type. There, i could show a gradual evolution from one design into the other. The Tye#54 types are very much abstracted, and unfortunately the pictorial design is much bigger than the flan size so individual specimen just show a part of the design.

Offline THCoins

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Re: The Tye#54 Jital type, Just some research in progress.
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2019, 06:18:15 PM »
So what is the first to do ? Get more specimen !
Therefore, i searched the internet and also the database of the British Museum to see if there were any specimen in the Masson collection.
The searchphrase "Begram + coin + Shahi" gave a first selection of Jitals. Among this were 19 specimen which could be categorized as the Tye#54 type based on both sides of the coin. Many of these seemed to be at a later state of abstraction than my specimen. But characteristic design elements were present.
So now i am working on the next step, what did the total design look like ? Therefore i first focussed on the bull side. This because i was curious whether there was a recognizeable legend above the bull. The picture below shows the first result. Left a mosa´c of several specimen (i used more, but then the picture becomes a bit messy.) To the right the initial reconstruction. Unfortunately, i could find no clear Tye#54 specimen where the head of the bull was included. But one inference can already be made. Based on some design elements, i considered that this type might be a later evolution of the "Sri Mahipala Deva" type. With the visible legend fragments i am now convinced that this is a crude representation of the common "Sri Samanta Deva".

To be continued..

(Pictures of more specimen are offcourse welcomed to this thread !)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 06:54:58 PM by THCoins »

Offline THCoins

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Re: The Tye#54 Jital type, just some research in progress.
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2019, 05:07:03 PM »
The previous two posts aimed to deliniate the Tye#54 type as a late derivative of the Samanta Deva Jitals.
It seems unlikely that these coins, hightly abstracted, and with just a small part of the die on flan, appeared overnight. Therefore i looked for coins which might represent an earlier, intermediate, stage in evolution.

The coins below would fit with such an earlier evolutionary stage, though are not neccessarily the direct ancestor of the Tye#54 type. These do not fit well in any Tye type. Single specimen show just a small part of the design on flan. So one needs multiple to get an impression of the type. There is some resemblance with the later Mahi Pala Jitals. But the text above the bull is clearly "Samanta Deva". Size is approximately 14 mm, average weight 3.16 gr.

The last coin shows a silver jital from the "Pre-Budaon" family (also not a specific Tye type). This might represent an even earlier stage in the evolution of this bull and horseman family branch, as it shares quite some style elements. But again, this does not mean it is an ancestor in a direct uninterupted lineage.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: The Tye#54 Jital type, just some research in progress.
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2019, 10:38:50 PM »
Super thread. I keep coming back to that overlay. Almost miraculous to have found such a good fit of the three coins. Too bad that no other members showed their coins.

The mosaic did make me wonder if these coins were not struck three at a time. The die is so much bigger than the flan that using it for just one would have made the structure of dies and flan, waiting for a hammer blow wobbly, while three flans would have stabilised the structure perfectly, assuming the flans were more or less of the same thickness. Think of a stool with a single leg versus one with three legs. A solid, cone-shaped upper die would have distributed the force of the blow pretty equally. More force would have been needed for the strike, but it would still have been within human capacity.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline THCoins

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Re: The Tye#54 Jital type, just some research in progress.
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2019, 09:22:49 AM »
Interesting idea Peter, but i do not think it likely that these coins were routinely struck three at a time.
First, you may get a wrong impression because i made a selection of a limited number of coins which showed the largest part of the design. But it is not so that coins always can be grouped into three possible places on the die.
Secondly, I am under the impression that the horse side of these coins is generally better centered than the bull side. The part with the horseman sitting on the bottom half of the banner is almost always in the middle of the flan. This may indicate that the horseman was on the bottom die and the flan was placed fairly in the middle of the die surface. The alignment of the bull side is more variable. This could suggest that this was on the top die, where the hammer swing lead to a more variable centering.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 11:01:42 AM by THCoins »