Counterstamped coins used as military dog tags

[brandm24]

This is the other piece I have in my collection that I feel has a high probability of having been used as a dog tag. I bought this from a coin dealer in Nashua, NH about 10 years ago.

With a few exceptions, I've spent more time researching this counterstamp than any other. I asked a number of people who I thought would have an informed opinion as to whether it was a dog tag or not. They included the owner of a website devoted to the history of the State of Vermont's contribution to the Civil War. As a matter of fact he had some information, including the picture, on this particular soldier. He agreed with my assessment. Others were non-committal or didn't agree with me. I would say that I'm 80% to 90% sure of its authenticity.

The soldier in question is Charles Buxton, who served as a major in the 1st Regiment of the Vermont Heavy Artillery. He was born in 1834 in Londonderry, Windham Co. VT. By trade he was a saddler and harness maker and the owner of a saddlery in Bellows Falls. He served with his regiment in a number of heavy engagements, before his untimely death on September 19, 1864 at Winchester, VA.

The really interesting thing about Buxton is that he kept a meticulous diary of his military life. By some miracle it survived, and is now in the collection of the Vermont Historical Society. It turned up in an old desk a number of years after the end of the war, luckily found by a friend of the Buxton family. Eventually it found its way to the historical society where parts of it are available to read online. I like to think that this coin was also recovered at Winchester, but I have no way of knowing.

There's a second example of Buxton's counterstamp reported, this on an 1854 Quarter. Though my example is holed and shows significant wear in the hole from rough treatment, the Quarter is undamaged so was likely used as a advertising piece only.

Bruce

[Figleaf]

The case for the overstamp to refer to Charles Buxton of Bellows Fall VT looks watertight to me. I have no doubt that he was enlisted in the military either. The question is whether he counterstamped the coin during his civil or his military life.

The argument for the military period is obvious. He wanted a means of identification for his body if he were to be killed. The military would have had drills and chisels in all sizes and as a saddle and harness maker. he would have been used to handling them. BTW, isn't it just like the army to put a saddler into the artillery, rather than the cavalry? The strongest point of the argument is the hole, obviously used. This piece served a practical purpose.

The argument for the civil period is that cents with a home-made counterstamp would be the cheapest form of advertising. Buxton's trade would have required the tools and skills necessary for making the punch. The hole would have been made later or by someone else or it was used to mark a tool. The strongest point in favour of this argument would be the second piece with Buxton's name. Who needs two dog tags?

The 1854 date of the coin doesn't help either. It can be used to advance either theory (PM the US civil war started in 1861) In the end, I think all we can say is that we just don't know (though I personally favour the military theory). I don't think it matters. The uncertainty is a form of romanticism that allows us to make our own story.

Peter

[brandm24]

The well worn hole is a strong point in favor of the military use theory as you say, Peter. When I spoke to Greg Brunk about this piece a long while ago he told me about the existence of a second example. I specifically asked him if the quarter had a hole in it, but he didn't respond. Later, I was fortunate to see a picture of it, and sure enough it isn't holed. If it had been, I might have a different opinion of its authenticity as a war relic.

It may be that Buxton stamped a number of coins to advertise his business. When he joined the regiment, he may have simply holed one and used it for body identification. Of course we'll probably never know, but that's the beauty of the internet. It's always changing, and I'm the kind of researcher who will go back and look for new information on a counterstamp of particular interest to me. It many instances it's served me well.

As an example, I started researching a group pf mid 19th century tokens issued by Joseph Stiner & Co. about 10 or 12 years ago. While I solved some of the mysteries, others I didn't. I've gone back many times in an effort to find "the rest of the story." I haven't found it yet, but I learned a lot about the coffee and tea trade in New York as well as about the Stner brothers. What I did learn was worth the effort. I plan on starting a thread on these interesting pieces soon.

I love your point about the army turning a saddler into an artillery man. Military intelligence indeed !!

Bruce

[Figleaf]

If this doesn't help, it doesn't harm either. Stiner is an anglo version of the common German name Steiner (stone worker), pronounced the same way. The German coffee and tea trade was long concentrated in Hamburg.

Peter

[brandm24]

The Stiners were from Bohemia, at least Joseph was. He and Jacob were step brothers, and it appears from census records that Jacob was born in London. In any case the Stiners arrived in New York in the early 1850s via the West Indies where they were described as tea and coffee merchants.

I found no history of the family in Europe, so don't know if they were involved in the tea and coffee trade there.

Bruce

[brandm24]

Here's an interesting one I just came across. Thought I'd post it here because I have trouble getting access to military records other than US.

Some parts are overstamped but it seems to read T.F.Timley / 5161 RC /  12h North Fus" The coin is French but can't see a date or denomination. World War 2 era though I think.
Thanks,

Bruce

(Images courtesy of eBay (diggerlee).

[Figleaf]

More information here.

The coin is likely to be a French 5 (25 mm) or 10 centimes (30 mm) of the type of 1897-1921 (Daniel-Dupuis). During the first world war, they were hoarded and disappeared from circulation. The 10 centimes was replaced with the Lindauer type (1914-1916).

Peter

[brandm24]

So this is probably a WW l tag then unless they still circulated in the 1940s.

I made a mistake on the name. It should be Timney not Timley. I also noticed a second 1 stamped under the T of the first initial so that would make the unit designation 112th North Fus (Fusiliers?).

Bruce

[Figleaf]

The Northumberland fuseliers had 53 battalions (see link in my previous post). I think the second 1 is either an error or a monogram.

[FosseWay]

List of WW1 campaigns in which the 12th battalion Northumberland Fusiliers took part: Wikipedia

I'm having a look on Ancestry etc. to see if there's anything else to dig up.

He's not listed on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website, so we can be fairly confident he didn't die during the war.

[FosseWay]

I've found his medal index card - definitely the same guy, with service number 5161, private in the 12th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers. His first name is Thomas. The F is still unknown. He was awarded the Victory Medal, BEF Medal and 1915 Star - i.e. standard issue for someone who served in France/Flanders and neither received a medal for individual gallantry nor was busted for any kind of serious offence.

Now I've got a first name it makes it easier to search the civilian databases (principally the 1911 census, where he ought to show up). More to follow.

[brandm24]

The Northumberland fuseliers had 53 battalions (see link in my previous post). I think the second 1 is either an error or a monogram.

I think I just ignored the extra 1 the first time, thinking it was stamped in too high a position by the maker. Now I see it was definitely a mistake of some sort.

I've found his medal index card - definitely the same guy, with service number 5161, private in the 12th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers. His first name is Thomas. The F is still unknown. He was awarded the Victory Medal, BEF Medal and 1915 Star - i.e. standard issue for someone who served in France/Flanders and neither received a medal for individual gallantry nor was busted for any kind of serious offence.

Now I've got a first name it makes it easier to search the civilian databases (principally the 1911 census, where he ought to show up). More to follow.

Thanks, FosseWay. I appreciate your looking up this information for me.

Bruce

[FosseWay]

No worries 

I think I've found the right person here. My slight hesitation is that nowhere other than in his military service records does he or the prevailing bureaucracy use his middle name (which is Francis btw) or initial. Timney isn't a common name, but it does seem to be concentrated around Northumberland and County Durham, so there's a possibility I've got the wrong person for some of this.

Anyway: born 16 December 1886 in Chester le Street registration district, County Durham, son of Frank and Catherine. Died 4th quarter of 1955 at Middlesbrough.

In 1911 I've found him with his parents and siblings at 89 Duncombe Street, Middlesbrough. He is a general labourer.

From a summary of another military document, it would appear he stayed in the Army until 1920 and was honorably discharged with the rank of lance-corporal. Given the medal record I quoted above has him as a private, I suspect his promotion occurred after the end of the war.

In the first quarter of 1919, he married Annie Haughey in Middlesbrough registration district.

I've also found him and Annie in the 1939 National Registration list, living at 19 Collinson Avenue, Middlesbrough. He has one of those completely baffling jobs that no-one outside the industry concerned can figure out: "soaking sett slagger, steelworks". Along with Thomas and Annie there is a redacted person at the same address - it is reasonable to presume a son or daughter, who was still alive when the scan was made.

Attached is a picture of him, uploaded to Ancestry by someone else who has researched him.

[brandm24]

A picture of a person you're researching has always been the "holy grail" for me. It brings the details of a past life sharply into focus.

Nice to meet you Lance-Corporal Timney!

Many thanks for the introduction, FosseWay.

Bruce

[caberney]

Another spotted on eBay today on an Australian florin - two shillings. ...it is 900 silver.

Not much left to research but I wonder what this sailor was?  INT. O.   US NAVY

I recently came across an Australian Florin turned "Dog Tag". Unlike yours my reverse was machined and counter stamped so all I had was the Head of the King and it was labeled as a WWI. My initial guess was India but learned that it was indeed an Australian Florin. The name on it was Benjamin F. Swindle and he was originally from AL. Served first on the IDHAO until the VJ day and then shortly after transferred to the SIERRA in Shanghai. I learned that the IDAHO was stationed in Australia for about three months during the war which is when he probably got the Florin.

Your question about INT. O. is Intelligence Officers. I was able to research Seaman Swindle's Career by checking out ship muster on Ancestory. I went to the local library and they hooked me up with the resources. You don't necessarily have to got to the national archives, especially now. You have the guys serves number. If you want or need help let me know.

This is my first time on this site and was trying learn how common this practice of counter stamping coins for ID tags was. Loved reading the post. Now that I have a WWII I am interested in maybe getting one from the other big wars