Author Topic: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany  (Read 1594 times)

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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2019, 03:11:56 PM »


Germany wasn't the only country to favour eagles.





Its neighbour Austria had them too. Sibling rivalry?



See:

1] Austria: pre-euro coinage from 1946 to 2001

2] Single heraldic birds on state arms

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2019, 03:25:15 PM »
Legally, the reunification of Germany was achieved on 31 August 1990 3 October 1990. The speed of the process was astonishing. It was 9 November 1989, only a few months before, when stunned East Berliners heard that the Berlin Wall was open, and they flocked there in their thousands.

Not everybody was pleased. Margaret Thatcher, then still prime minister of the UK, had grown up during the time of Hitler's menace, and this influenced her attitudes. The French were nervous, but in return for his support for reunification, President Mitterand asked Chancellor Kohl to support the speeding up of the introduction of a single European currency. The euro had been brought a few steps closer.

Meanwhile, some East Germans suffered from the psychological shock of the swift loss of their country. Economically, life became harsher for some. "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us", they had joked, about life under communism. Some had hoped for a slower transition to reunification. It was not to be.

Not all West Germans were pleased: some looked down on the poorer 'Ossis' - the colloquial West German term for Easterners. A friend from North-Rhine Westphalia complained to me in the early 1990s that he often found it impossible to buy his favourite brands in the shops, because the Ossis were now buying so much and their demand for goods could not be satisfied.

 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 06:16:28 PM by <k> »

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2019, 04:22:35 PM »
But coins do not exist in a void. They are human inventions with a historical background.

Such as Greece & The Euro, Episode #12345? ;) There is absolutely nothing wrong, of course, with posting some info about the country that issued the coins this topic is about. But I do not think that, just as an example, May 1968 is reflected by the Federal Republic's coinage ...

Side note: The "reunification" - when the five ex-GDR states joined the Federal Republic of Germany - was on 3 October 1990. That day has since then been a national holiday, the only one in Germany. (All others are state holidays.)

Christian
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 04:36:10 PM by chrisild »

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2019, 04:31:22 PM »
Germany wasn't the only country to favour eagles.

Right, Austria has one too. Well, both countries are "children" of the HRE (Holy Roman Empire of German Nation) which also had an eagle as its symbol.

Now Poland has an eagle too, and there is an interesting difference between the German eagle and the Polish eagle on coins. As witnessed by and in this topic, the eagle of the Federal Republic of Germany is different on pretty much every different coin type. The Polish Republic always uses the very same eagle type and style ...

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2019, 06:15:01 PM »
Such as Greece & The Euro, Episode #12345? ;)

Figleaf first mentioned Greece and the euro. I disagreed with his interpretation, as I am entitled to. But I am well aware that you dislike people disagreeing with your strongly held positions and complain about them even mentioning the subjects. Suppressing debate and dissent is not a very democratic position, however.

Quote

 There is absolutely nothing wrong, of course, with posting some info about the country that issued the coins this topic is about. But I do not think that, just as an example, May 1968 is reflected by the Federal Republic's coinage ...

Then ignore it. Germany, however, is not Liechtenstein, a quiet little non-entity. It is a large country, and it was at the heart of Europe's division by communism. In that context, I mentioned communism's effect on Europe. Perhaps I would have done better to mention the protests in 1968 against the visit of Shah of Iran to West Berlin, then Rudi Dutschke, etc. As for unnecessary, so are those three dots with which you so often end your sentences.  :P

Quote
Side note: The "reunification" - when the five ex-GDR states joined the Federal Republic of Germany - was on 3 October 1990. That day has since then been a national holiday, the only one in Germany. (All others are state holidays.)

A worthwhile criticism, for once. It will be acted upon.  ;)

 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 06:25:31 PM by <k> »

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2019, 06:54:47 PM »
Suppressing debate and dissent is not a very democratic position, however.

Agreed, except I have never done that here. I merely voiced an opinion.

Since the 5 DM "coins vs notes" issue came up here, let me add the paper money denominations. Interestingly, both Germany (Federal Republic) and Switzerland have been quite conservative when it comes to coin designs but less so regarding their notes.

The first DM series, printed in the US (and quite "American looking"), was issued with the introduction of the new currency on 20 June 1948. The denominations: 1/2 DM, 1 DM, 2 DM, 5 DM, 10 DM, 20 DM (two types), 50 DM (two types), 100 DM. (For the lower denominations, people could initially continue to use the Deutsches Reich coins at 1/10 or so of their face value.)

Second series (Bank deutscher Länder)
- introduced between August 1948 and December 1952 -
5 Pf, 10 Pf, 5 DM, 10 DM, 20 DM, 50 DM

Third series (Deutsche Bundesbank)
- introduced between February 1961 and April 1965 -
5 DM, 10 DM, 20 DM, 50 DM, 100 DM, 500 DM, 1000 DM

In the early 60s there were also replacement notes for both West Germany (10 DM, 20 DM, 50 DM, 100 DM) and West Berlin (5 DM, 10 DM, 20 DM, 50 DM, 100 DM), plus Bundeskassenscheine (5 Pf, 10 Pf, 50 Pf, 1 DM, 2 DM). Those would have been used had the cash circulation been "significantly disturbed". They were produced but never issued.

Fourth series (Deutsche Bundesbank)
- introduced between October 1990 and October 1992 -
5 DM, 10 DM, 20 DM, 50 DM, 100 DM, 200 DM, 500 DM, 1000 DM
That series was planned quite a while before the changes in the GDR 1989 but was issued "just in time" for the currency union (July 1990) and the unification (October 1990).

So the highest denomination circulation coin was the 5 DM (€2.56) while today it is the €2 coin. The highest denomination note was the 1000 DM (about €511); today it is the €500 note which is to be phased out.

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2019, 07:01:03 PM »
Agreed, except I have never done that here. I merely voiced an opinion.

You voiced the opinion that you disliked my voicing my opinion in response to Figleaf's voicing his opinion (about Greece and the euro). Which suggests to me that you have authoritarian tendencies when it comes to people disagreeing with you. But that's just my opinion.  ;)

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2019, 07:26:11 PM »
1 and 2 Pfennig brass trials, from kruemelmoonster.

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2019, 07:27:08 PM »

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2019, 08:10:19 PM »
Trying various materials and alloys out is quite normal. But I am sure that the Bank deutscher Länder coins, and the coins issued by the Federal Republic of Germany, would never have looked like that: Zinc and also aluminum would have looked and felt like notgeld ...

(Yes, I know that the GDR had mostly aluminum coins. All the more reason for the Westerners to not have that. ;D )

A brass 1 Pf coin might have been OK, but such a 2 Pf would have been bigger than the 5 Pf with the same appearance. Not a good idea.

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2019, 08:12:36 PM »
Various Western countries have had the occasional aluminium (Italy) or zinc (Austria) coin(s), and still long after World War II.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2019, 08:22:08 PM »
Well, this topic is about the Federal Republic of Germany, right? ;) And zinc or "alu" would have been No-Nos, mostly because of their use in the hyperinflation and nazi years.

In fact, when the first "DM Pfennig" coins were planned, one of the conditions was that they should not have any political messages. Also, "regular" Antiqua characters were to be used, not the Fraktur types from the nazi coins. (The nazi regime later opposed Fraktur, but the coins were never adapted.) And, the 1 Pf coin was to have an appearance like before the 1920s inflation: "copper" with a weight of 2 grams. Copper-plated steel was fine, but nothing cheap looking please.

Christian


Offline gpimper

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2019, 03:59:35 AM »
The first time I was in Germany I was in West Germany.  I look at it today and am amazed.  What a wonderful country they have become!
The Chief...aka Greg

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2019, 10:27:48 AM »
Oh really? ::) Let's just say that the "enlargement" in 1957/58 (Saarland) worked better than the one in 1989/89 (Eastern states). Then again, the division of the country and the Western support for the "showcase" West Germany were basically products of the Cold War, and it is good that those years are over.

(Yeah, some of this may be partly high level moaning or whining ...)

Christian

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Pre-euro Coinage of the Federal Republic of Germany
« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2019, 10:58:32 AM »
You are simplifying a bit much there. The cold war wasn't about the BRD, but the BRD was a focal point. After the Wirtschaftswunder, the BRD did very well for itself, thank you and needed nobody's support. It got at least my admiration for an exemplary foreign policy: doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because it is seen as a short term advantage. Also, it was out ahead with green concerns (Waldsterben). It licked obesity as a national health problem (I remember those beer bellies of the fifties and sixties). It smote neo-nazism when others where (and are still) sitting on their hands or worse. I could go on, but I hope the point is clear. The history of the BRD made it a remarkable player that was taken for granted, rather than supported or showcased.

The first series of coins were issued before the Wirtschaftswunder. I take your point about the use of zinc. Might it be that Adenauer and consorts would have insisted on non-zinc because the last nazi series was zinc? So why didn't that stop Austria and Italy? Austrians told themselves that their role was all the fault of the Germans (maybe they still do) and the Italian economy was far more difficult to control because of large income divergencies between North and South, made worse by corruption and crime. The North could have supported a small, brass-plated iron 10 lire and no lower denominations, but the South needed a 5 and 1 lire and would probably have been happy with a 50 centesimi piece in the first post-war series.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.