Author Topic: Indonesia, Teluk Samawi,Sultan Jauhar Al-Alam Shah, Tin alloy pitis,  (Read 570 times)

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Offline capnbirdseye

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I keep coming back to this coin from my recent purchases, it looks familiar and yet I cannot seem to identify it  ???

It's less than a typical Jital weight at 2.72g.  it appears to be billon
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 06:07:10 PM by capnbirdseye »
Vic

Offline THCoins

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2019, 05:24:39 PM »
My first association was "Haq" or "Jou" in the center of the left side, plus style, could be Mehrabanids from Sistan. But looking closer i can't get much further on that idea.

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2019, 06:52:45 PM »
My first association was "Haq" or "Jou" in the center of the left side, plus style, could be Mehrabanids from Sistan. But looking closer i can't get much further on that idea.

Could be Mehrabanid although it does not resemble any of the 15 or so I have, however the metal could be a clue as it has a similar composition with possibly some lead in which gives it a very grey appearance
Vic

Offline saro

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2019, 06:03:40 PM »
Even if I have no idea about its origin  It seems to me that it reads (from bottom) : "al-'adl Shah Johr " & for the other face :"Hamadi falus" + a date ? at bottom.

"al-'adil" is not clear  :-\  but I don't see what else could fit after al-'a...?
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2019, 06:07:54 PM »
Thanks for the overlay saro, as yet this coin remains unidentified on Fb and zeno so maybe I will add your overlay on the Fb post and see if anoyone can add to it
Vic

Offline saro

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2019, 10:00:11 AM »
" جوهر for " Johor"  ???
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 12:40:12 PM »
Sorry, I don't think so. The sultans of Johore would not have dared to call themselves shah, Johore issued no copper (it did issue zinc coins) and the name of the state is not on the coins. Checked Saran Singh to be sure and found nothing like this coin.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 11:54:33 PM »
Now identified  :)
the correct reading is : "Jauhar al-'alam Shah" & " Teluk Samawi 1226" (Teluk at top)
Jauhar al-'alam Shah was sultan of Aceh and Teluk Samawi a famous port in Malacca straits in Sumatra kingdom from 13th to 16th c.

ref : see this link
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2019, 12:31:41 AM »
 :applause: :applause: :applause:

Great id. You were so close.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2019, 08:44:45 AM »
Thank you Peter  ;)   I join the corrected overlay...(the legend is fully present except the "k" of "Teluk" )
This coin indeed looks oldest than it is and doesn' seem to be in lead ? may be in "caxas" as mentionned in the reference paper ?
However, I don't know what is the alloy called"caxas"?
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2019, 08:49:20 AM »
Caxas is the Portuguese word for cash (plural). It means something like "coin of a very small value".

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2019, 10:31:57 AM »
Brilliant detective work saro,  8) nobody on Fb or zeno has been able to identify it so far so I am well pleased that you finally did it.

The metal this coin is made from is some kind of alloy probably mixed with Lead,  perhaps similar to coins of the Mehrabanids but unlike those it shows no deterioration.
A quick search on zeno gives no results for Teluk Samawi but it may be spelled differently, I will add your findings to my zeno post and see what comes up
 
Vic

Offline THCoins

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2019, 11:55:25 AM »
Great attribution !

Offline saro

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2019, 01:52:06 PM »
Thank you both Vic & Anthony  :)
I suspected an Indonesian or Malaysian origin and wasn't satisfied with the reading of the word "al-'adl" after "Shah" which looked better like "al-'aa-lm../ al-'aalam" ; it was the clue ! and for the rest : thanks to Mr Google  :D

I suppose that's a scarce coin ? may be others are sleeping in some trays, waiting an accurate label...
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: A Jital? to identify
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2019, 03:31:52 PM »
Probably is a scarce coin, particularly as it's not corroded like the one from the link. I can't find a zeno listing for Teluk Samawi unless they create one
Vic