Author Topic: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS  (Read 493 times)

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Offline Rodan61

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SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« on: March 02, 2019, 08:52:12 PM »
Hello guys :)
I recently added to my collection these tokens but I'm unable to find information about the city/cities in which they are used; from the Voice catalogue I know that they are part of a serie of 8 tokens, 4 of 20p and 4 of 50 p (various colors). The location of South Staffordshire Councile is Wolverhampton Road, Codsall, South Staffordshire, WV8 1PX and I presume that they could be used in Wolwerhampton but I dont no for sure.  Thanks for any informations. ;D
Antonio

Offline andyg

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2019, 09:43:29 PM »
They were good for use in this area,
South Staffordshire District Council - MapIt
as long as you travelled within or from/to the area and qualified for a concessionary pass (elderly 60+ and disabled) - they could be used to pay taxi fares as well as bus travel.  The Voice catalogue I don't trust as it's full of errors  :-\ but there are probably more of this series out there.


South Staffordshire - World of Tokens
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Rodan61

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2019, 10:43:55 AM »
 :thankyou:

Offline FosseWay

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 08:00:28 AM »
In the introduction to the UK section in the Smith bus/tram token catalogue, Smith notes something like "most people in the UK never use a transport token all their lives yet there are hundreds" (this is paraphrased as I don't have the book in front of me). This thread is a shining example of the correctness of that statement. I grew up in South Staffordshire (in Kinver, to be precise, at the very bottom of the blue area highlighted by andyg) and lived there for 18 years, 16 of which under the age of 18 and therefore qualifying for concessionary travel, and I never saw anything like this in use. I used the bus regularly and never paid for the fare using anything other than standard coin of the realm. The fare was 37p from Kinver to Stourbridge or vice versa and the drivers didn't give change, so there was a constant fight to get the right combinations of coins - buying tokens in advance, say 10 for £3.70, would have been an eminently sensible solution in the pre-electronic era, but it was AFAIK never or rarely implemented in the UK, unlike in the US or Sweden.

Offline andyg

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2019, 08:30:51 AM »
.... lived there for 18 years, 16 of which under the age of 18 and therefore qualifying for concessionary travel.

These, and majority of the more recent (decimal) tokens were only issued to the elderly and/or disabled, young people did not and still do not qualify for the council tokens, instead usually receiving discounted commercial fares from the bus company directly.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline FosseWay

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 09:05:01 AM »
These, and majority of the more recent (decimal) tokens were only issued to the elderly and/or disabled, young people did not and still do not qualify for the council tokens, instead usually receiving discounted commercial fares from the bus company directly.

Yes, this is what I meant (sorry, I was unclear). It seems strange that, even though tokens were a known phenomenon in UK transport, they were never used more widely, especially given some providers' insistence on not giving change.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 09:30:13 AM »
The use of the tokens was quite political, I gather. Socialists loved them, conservatives hated them. The underlying issue was the deficit of most, if not all public transport organisations. This explains why the tokens were quite local: socialist districts would not want to share the subsidies, conservative districts did not want to share the deficits.

When two districts bordering on each other would both use tokens, there would be forms of co-operation between transport organisations for those living in the "border" area, but that could still imply that people having only one token handy would have to chose between paying full price and waiting for the next bus if the first bus would not accept the tokens of the "competition".

There is a fine episode of "yes minister" on co-ordinating bus transport.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline andyg

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2019, 10:14:12 AM »
Yes, this is what I meant (sorry, I was unclear). It seems strange that, even though tokens were a known phenomenon in UK transport, they were never used more widely, especially given some providers' insistence on not giving change.

These tokens were issued by councils though not bus companies.  Tokens were only given to those eligible - if you were not entitled to a pass then you could not use the tokens even if you had been given them.   whilst the earlier municipal tokens were valid as you suggest, if the bus companies at the time of these tokens had wanted to issue tokens of their own they would have had to have used a distinct parallel system with all the confusion that would have entailed.

As I typed the above I realised how silly this bureaucratic mess must look to outsiders!
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Rodan61

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2019, 04:25:32 PM »
So these tokens could only be used by particular categories of people within the concession area of the dealer? But how are they distributed? Are they sold in advance in batches? In Italy many local transport companies have gained a lot from the preventive sale of tokens that have never returned or been used

Offline FosseWay

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2019, 06:49:07 PM »
So these tokens could only be used by particular categories of people within the concession area of the dealer? But how are they distributed? Are they sold in advance in batches? In Italy many local transport companies have gained a lot from the preventive sale of tokens that have never returned or been used

In this case, if I understand right, they are given, not sold, to the relevant category of traveller, who then must show their right to use them (e.g. old age bus pass) when they actually pay for the journey. So the transport company doesn't gain by the tokens not being used, but the council may do. Presumably the transport company presents to the council the tokens paid by passengers and receives payment accordingly.

What you mention about tokens not being used or returned also applies to travel cards. I can't remember the figures but there was a local news article in Gothenburg recently that said that millions of kronor are locked up in the deposits on pay-as-you-go travel cards (50 kr per card). Many people don't use them any more, preferring to use the phone app (same price per ticket). Even where people do still use them, they do have a use-by date on and must be exchanged for new ones periodically. I still use the card for travel where my season ticket is valid because for some reason you can't buy a year season ticket in the app. But outside my zone I just use the app.

Offline andyg

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Re: SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE COUNCIL TOKENS
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2019, 11:50:42 PM »
In this case, if I understand right, they are given, not sold, to the relevant category of traveller, who then must show their right to use them (e.g. old age bus pass) when they actually pay for the journey. So the transport company doesn't gain by the tokens not being used, but the council may do. Presumably the transport company presents to the council the tokens paid by passengers and receives payment accordingly.

Yes - the council would decide how much a years bus pass was worth - then you could claim your tokens if eligible.  The tokens would then be available for travel within and to / from the council's area.

National Transport tokens work in much the same way - except they are valid across the UK. Usually with these though you can have either a bus pass for the year or the equivalent value in tokens.  National Tokens being valid on trains and taxi's as well as the bus.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....