Author Topic: Shan-long palace cash for Qian-Long 1797-99  (Read 137 times)

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Offline bgriff99

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Shan-long palace cash for Qian-Long 1797-99
« on: February 11, 2019, 04:27:33 AM »
Palace cash were large sized cash made for use in the imperial palace as new year's celebration gifts.  They were started in 1752, and remained in use until the penurious Dao Guang emperor cancelled them in 1831.    The shan-long itself was a type of Qian-long coin issued during Jia-Qing, as the old emperor had retired at age 85, but honorary cash for circulation were still made in his name.    This coin is 28.7mm , 6.3 g.    It should have been cast from 1797 -99.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Shan-long palace cash for Qian-Long 1797-99
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 01:50:04 PM »
Wow! I didn't know about these, let alone I'd have seen one of them. Are they difficult to find because every specialists wants them or easy to find because they were memorable memories? Would you consider them coins, because they look like coins or medals, because they were for memory and gifts, not to buy things with?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline THCoins

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Re: Shan-long palace cash for Qian-Long 1797-99
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 05:31:21 PM »
Impressive coin, brass ? I am still not able to distinguish the real gems from the blatant forgeries, but on this one i am impressed by the quality of the engraving of the characters.

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Shan-long palace cash for Qian-Long 1797-99
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 07:36:31 PM »
Peter, this is somewhat of a rare coin nowadays.   There are plenty of fakes, and of course owners of them who insist they aren't.    Palace cash are considered to be coins, but the series does include one kind that is questionable for its time period, and others which are on the fringe of official, and old private issues.   For the most part they can be matched to an exact year of circulation cash.    Problem with that is, how many people have a by-year reference collection of the Qing Dynasty?    Or Werner Burger's new $700 book.   In Japan, cash coins have always been taken seriously.   Elsewhere including China, it has been a lot of wishful making things up, wanting only super-rarities and strange things, and getting a load of fakes.   The mode of dealership in China exacerbated that.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Shan-long palace cash for Qian-Long 1797-99
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 06:40:01 PM »
Indeed. I recently attended a meeting where Craig Greenbaum showed fake and fantasy cash type coins made for US soldiers in Vietnam. Many of these were oversized. His book on these is number 9 on this page. I was impressed by the variety of them and how interesting they looked, but also by the fact that they could most readily be identified as fakes with a hard to find, expensive catalogue, perhaps the Burger catalogue you mentioned.

I am a bit surprised that they straddle the line between coin and medals. I can imagine how at first, they would have been meant as coins you can spend, but, in view of their size and relation with the imperial palace, would a recipient not have held on to it? Even if the recipient or his offspring didn't want it, wouldn't it have been possible to sell it for more than 1/1000th of a string?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline bgriff99

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Re: Shan-long palace cash for Qian-Long 1797-99
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 03:28:50 AM »
The Chinese palace coins were supposedly passed out to eunuchs, servants and guards at the palace, at New Years.   It is a thing in China to give money in a red envelope or on a red string for that.    Eventually they would be sold outside, I'd think for more than their approximate intrinsic value of 2 cash.    Many found now still have gilding traces, as the orange areas in the fields of this one are.    Or vermillion in the fields with high areas gilt, but just traces remaining.   Yet many are also found with edges hammered in to the diameter of an ordinary cash but rim thickness of 2, for stringing with them.


Re Vietnam era fakes of large Vietnam cash, that is simplifying things a bit.    I do have a Vietnam souvenir set, from an actual soldier who was there.    The large cash is of more poor quality than most of the fakes being shown now as from the 1960's.   I think they are a bit older reproductions.   Perhaps early 20th century.