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Early "Lion & Sun" Safavid copper or Aq Quyunlu ? Amid mint

Started by saro, December 11, 2018, 03:31:42 PM

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saro

Falus of Isma'il Shah I  / 8,48g / rare coin with a nice black patina
This coin was sleeping without label for quite some time in a drawer... before I recently found an accurate reference in a paper of Lutz Ilisch (Research Center for Islamic Numismatics / Tübingen),with this comment :
"Shah Isma'il reintroduced the Sun & Lion device (in 912 AH) into iranian copper coinage, after a two hundred years period from which very few examples have been found".
ref : JC3D3 / Tübingen museum (fig.18 ) / dated 912 AH

This undated coin of the same type is likely from Amid mint. : an early coin of Shah Isma'il or a late Aq Qunyunlu issue ?

"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

saro

Persian civic coppers were of local use and don't show the Shah's name; if this coin  bears the king's name, (Isma'il)  it should be considered as a State coin; maybe it reads  only "ضرب امد  zarb Amid (or Amol ?)" without ruler's name ?

The Tübingen coin (in lower grade) shows a part of the date 912 at top, not visible here (or not present ?)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

capnbirdseye

A really interesting and attractive type, the sun displayed quite differently to the usual or more common types we see. Most noticeable is how the engraver did the sun with a peak at the top, it must be the first coin featuring a solar flare!  :D
Vic

saro

Quote from: capnbirdseye on December 12, 2018, 10:26:40 AMMost noticeable is how the engraver did the sun with a peak at the top, it must be the first coin featuring a solar flare!  :D
Yes, it's really an uncommon shape for the sun... the museum example shows the same peak but with straight sunrays and not wavy as here; however the whole designs obv & rev are the same.
The museum coin minted at Tabriz is dated 912AH, this one, undated with wavy sunrays is likely from Amid mint.



"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

maudry

Here is the same coin differently centered.
Possibly from the same dies?
I have brightened the reverse on a second picture so that hopefully it can be better read.
Size: 20mm
Weight: 8.12gr

saro

Good find Maudry  :applause:
Your coin is identical to mine : same type and could be well from same die as you suggest; the legend is slightly different from the Tübingen's coin.
For comparison : attached a photo of the Tübingen museum coin I referred to
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

maudry

If this coin bears the name of Isma'il Shah I should it not be placed into the general forum instead of the "Civic Issues"?

saro

It is indeed a relevant remark, and I asked myself the same question when the  "civic copper" child board index was created few months ago.
I solved it by keeping it in the 2 indexes as you can check   :D ::)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

saro

Quote from: maudry on January 21, 2021, 08:36:18 PM
If this coin bears the name of Isma'il Shah I should it not be placed into the general forum instead of the "Civic Issues"?
It is done  ;) and I have added a "regal copper issues" section to the concerned the Safavids rulers.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)