Author Topic: Dates - an array of calendars  (Read 3300 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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Dates - an array of calendars
« on: October 07, 2009, 08:57:55 PM »
The coins with the highest date are probably Thai, since they are already in the 26th century. But what would be the lowest date on a coin in circulation today? I found a coin from year 1, but that's cheating just a tiny little bit...

Peter
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 10:07:44 AM by paisepagal »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

andyg

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Re: Dates
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 09:09:22 PM »
I suspect your coin is from Japan.
Taiwan coins have low dates, the 1 5 and 10 yuan coins go back to year 70 (from the birth of the republic)

I see your high Thai coin and raise you Israel, 2009 being year 5769....

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Dates
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 09:19:36 PM »
@andyg: correct on both counts. Impressive.

@Ice Torch: I have heard worse...  :)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

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Re: Dates
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 12:06:37 AM »
I suspect your coin is from Japan.
Taiwan coins have low dates, the 1 5 and 10 yuan coins go back to year 70 (from the birth of the republic)

I see your high Thai coin and raise you Israel, 2009 being year 5769....

This is just me playing devil's advocate, but it should be noted that the Israeli coins just say "769" as the alphabetic numbers don't go high enough to represent 5000, so they leave the thousands part out.  Wonder if this will cause a Hebrew equivalent of Y2K in 231 years' time?


andyg

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Re: Dates
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 12:24:54 AM »
 ;)

andyg

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Re: Dates
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 12:37:16 AM »
well it doesn't but you didn't specifically ask for that bit.

there's plenty here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar
but nothing I can find to state why they only use the last three digits.

Offline africancoins

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Re: Dates
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 12:55:18 AM »
The recent SCWC books with 1901 to 2000 dated coins have in the Israel intro a big list of dates...

Lots of years upto and including 1981 are listed against:-

(1) the equivalent JE year written in Hebrew as it appears on the coins

and

(2) the equivalent to (1) in western numerals (some older books show the "5" in brackets at the start of the JE year in western numerals)

and then next in the long list...

Lots of years starting with 1981 are listed against:-

(1) the equivalent JE year written in Hebrew as it appears on the coins (for all of these there is an extra Hebrew character at the end (reading left to right) of each of these as compared to any of the Hebrew years in the first part of the list)

and

(2) the equivalent to (1) in western numerals

The extra Hebrew character at the end of the year on the newer coins is therefore for "5000" and was previously assumed. This character representing "5" as in "5000" is the same as the one used to represent just "5" at the start of such dates as 5755. But the "50" uses as a different character. Also - I think it used to tell you about this in the book and also how these Hebrew characters are all consonants from the Hebrew alphabet.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

translateltd

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Re: Dates
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 01:12:41 AM »
OK, the Hebrew numbers work a bit like the ancient Greek ones: Aleph (alpha) = 1, Beth (beta) = 2, etc.  After ten the next letter is for 20, and after 100 the next letter is for 200.  The alphabet runs out at 400.  So if my shaky memory is working right, 769 would be written 400-300-60-9.  As Paul points out, and as the scan from SCWC shows (but doesn't state!), it looks like they have started representing the 5000 by the letter for 5, so 5765 reads 5-400-300-60-5.

I sit corrected - pleased to have learned something new once again!!


Offline Figleaf

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Re: Dates
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 12:29:58 AM »
That still leaves the question of what the lowest date (not regnal year) is. Maybe it's Islamic? I seem to remember that the first European dated coins appeared in the 14th century, but I have seen Islamic dated coins o the 9th century AH on this site. There may be earlier dates...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline asm

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Re: Dates
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2011, 03:07:09 AM »
The Islamic Sultanates in India - the Dehli Sultanate as well as the Bengal Sultanate had coins with dates around AH 610.

Amit
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translateltd

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Re: Dates
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2011, 04:10:43 AM »
Early Islamic coins had the dates written in words, but if they were expressed in digits instead, there would definitely be some two-digit ones from late in (our) 7th Century.


Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Dates
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2011, 06:15:36 AM »
Recently I have posted one coin with 3 dating systems - IPS-JAORA

Cheers ;D
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



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Offline FosseWay

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Re: Dates
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2011, 09:51:06 AM »
That still leaves the question of what the lowest date (not regnal year) is.

And that calls into question what is a 'date' and what a 'regnal year'. Coins of the Ottoman Empire (for example) have both, so it's clear which is an AH date and which a regnal year, but the Japanese system is to date years since the current emperor ascended. There is no other way (in traditional, non-AD dating) that I know of to date years in Japan. Therefore, despite your caveat about regnal years, I think the lowest date on coins will be the various examples of Year 1 (which has a special non-numeric character) of the last few Japanese emperors.

As a variant of that, many Taiwanese coins use 1911 as the reference date, the year the Republic came into being. Hence all Taiwanese coins of the 20th century, other than those dated in AD, will have two-digit dates.

Perhaps closer to your meaning, though, would be the French Revolutionary calendar. I've got plenty of coins dated in single figures in this system (e.g. 'L'An 8') but I can't remember how low they go. L'An 4 rings a bell.

translateltd

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Re: Dates
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2011, 09:55:55 AM »
There is an alternative dating system in Japan, from the traditional foundation of the Empire.  I think it was only ever used on coinage for the occupation issues for the Netherlands East Indies, though, which showed the dates 2603-2604 (1943-44).