Author Topic: Civic copper of Qom with flying bird  (Read 218 times)

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Online saro

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Civic copper of Qom with flying bird
« on: November 07, 2018, 01:35:48 PM »
Here is a pretty non catalogued civic coin struck on a folded sheet of copper, sold with a wrong attribution.
For the fun, who will be able to identify the mint whose name is partially present and not easy to decipher ?  :)

to help :13,30g / 23-25mm
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 02:41:03 PM by saro »
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 03:10:36 PM »
No luck for me  :'(
Vic

Offline THCoins

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 08:03:01 PM »
It is pretty ! i love the bird.
The Persian script however is still a hurdle for me though  :-\

Offline aws22

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 08:11:56 PM »
Dear Saro, it looks like ضرب أحمد آباد  , "Zarb Ahmedabad" (Indian mints/ Nadir campaigns).

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Online saro

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 09:09:23 PM »
Thank you Vic and Anthony, the mintname is in the upper left quarter and it is really difficult to decipher because the script is not usual and alas Maythem it isn't Ahmadabbad :'( it's well a persian mint, not the commonest, but however well known.
I have to say that's because I have seen this similar obverse (same script and ornaments) on a coin of +/- half weight, I am certain of its attribution. (a coin with a camel on reverse).
I think that it is dated "xx52" , 1052AH probably (at 9 o'clock).
What I'm not sure is which bird it is ? a pigeon ?

(I'll give the solution tomorrow, so that you have the night to find :D )
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online saro

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2018, 09:20:41 AM »
The mint is Qom :  قم

Here I have gathered different calligraphies of the mintname as they appear on civic coppers, often without dots (n3 for this coin), may be others exist ?
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 09:45:34 AM »
Neat puzzle, saro. Even knowing the answer, I wouldn't have found it on the coin :) With your calligraphic fruit of the pen I had it in an instant. :bow:

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 11:10:36 AM »
I guess you are the winner saro  ;D  I hadn't heard of that place before even though Qom is the eighth largest city in Iran, I have however seen coins of Qum and also Valentine list it as Kum so is this the same place I wonder?
Vic

Online saro

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 11:46:18 AM »
I guess you are the winner saro  ;D  I hadn't heard of that place before even though Qom is the eighth largest city in Iran, I have however seen coins of Qum and also Valentine list it as Kum so is this the same place I wonder?
Yes, for Valentine, "Kum" is with no doubt "Qom (in this book, Qazvin is also named "Kazwin"); Qom is also spelled "Qumm" on Zeno (I don't know why ?); the good script, I think, is "Qom".
After Meshed, Qom is the 2nd holy city for shiites (abode of the shrine of Fatima Masumeh, the sister of Imam Reza).
In WoC index there are already 2 other coins (showing calligraphy type 1 & 2)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline aws22

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Re: Who will be the first to identify this civic copper ?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2018, 12:15:06 PM »
Thank you Saro for showing the different variations of writing " Qom قم ".

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Online saro

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Re: Civic copper of Qom with flying bird
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2018, 02:01:37 PM »
it is remarkable to see that this coin was made with the same folding technique used slightly later in Qandahar when the city was under the control of the Safavids.
This one, previously posted (Val.n4) dated (10)58 (full date on Valentine's coin) leads me to think that the date is 1052AH and not 1152.
The mint master could well have been transferred from Qom to Qandahar  ;) or at least his technique...
The coin of a similar type of reverse (round flan / 5,24g / camel) shown by Bahram Alaedini is dated (10)41; curiously, he didn't notice these digits 4 &1 however present at the same place  ???
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 04:44:11 PM by saro »
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Offline maudry

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Re: Civic copper of Qom with flying bird
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2018, 09:25:21 PM »
Beautiful coin and great Id.
It was attributed to Sari, was it not?

Online saro

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Re: Civic copper of Qom with flying bird
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 10:50:14 PM »
Yes, and that was wrong...I suppose that it's because the "s" of "falus" was taken for the beginning of this mint.
Sari is written like this :ساری
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)