Discussion: Opinion on this one please!

[Rabi_R]

Please see the attached photo. I purchased from a dealer online. As per mint information, the coin is supposed to be quaternary alloy. Do quaternary alloys have this characteristic? Or does it indicate something else?

[Navaneeth]

This seems to be damaged or a fake coin (If got just the coin ). Please add some more images.

[Rabi_R]

Rest of the coin is perfectly OK. The area is very small, as you can guess from the size of letters and is visible only with a magnifier. The photograph was taken with considerable difficulty.

[Figleaf]

Are you thinking the coin is clad? Don't forget that smooth surfaces always look different from uneven surfaces, if only because the light is reflected differently. Maybe it's also the light, but it looks like this occurred on a proof coin. Proof flans are tortured even more than circulation dies. Something as silly as the metal being slightly polluted or badly mixed might have caused small slivers to break off when the coin is struck two, maybe three times under higher than normal pressure.

Peter

[Rabi_R]

It is not the light, i have tested it in all types of light and from all angle. I accept your explanation of the manufacturing fault. This one is a proof coin. What i didn't tell, and i should have told, is, i got this one at a much cheaper price ( the set is broken though) than that at which it is being sold by the mint. After knowing this, do you have anything more to say?

[Figleaf]

It seems natural to me that if the seller sees that a proof coin looks damaged, he knocks the price down. In fact, if he had't done so it would have been more suspicious. But what do you think happened to the coin?

Peter

[Navaneeth]

It is not the light, i have tested it in all types of light and from all angle. I accept your explanation of the manufacturing fault. This one is a proof coin. What i didn't tell, and i should have told, is, i got this one at a much cheaper price ( the set is broken though) than that at which it is being sold by the mint. After knowing this, do you have anything more to say?

If rest of the coin is ok and visible only with the lens.. then no need to worry as you have got at better price.

[Rabi_R]

It seems natural to me that if the seller sees that a proof coin looks damaged, he knocks the price down. In fact, if he had't done so it would have been more suspicious. But what do you think happened to the coin?

Peter

I think you have got it in your initial reply. The first thing that came to my mind is electroplating 

[Figleaf]

That is easy to check. Electroplated coins very often show a seam at the edge. A thick edge and some judicious heating and filing could hide it, but with that magnification, you ought to be able to spot a seam. In addition, electroplated coins are very often off weight. If your coin is overweight, it's sure to be a fake. Even when it is significantly underweight, it would be suspicious. Do remember that electroplating alone will not give you the proof effect and if you know how to make a fake proof effect, why skimp on the metal? You might as well use something like the real thing.

Peter

[Rabi_R]

Thank you. Gained some knowledge today about coin production technology.

[kansal888]

Dear Rabi

Now a days, market is flooded with high quality Chinese fakes.

Please post a good high resolution image of both sides of your coin. Or alternatively contact me with a PM.

Regards

Sanjay

Edit: email address removed to prevent harvesting by spammers. Please exchange contact information by PM.

[Rabi_R]

Well, proof coins are not legal tenders, so by faking, no one will jeopardize the economy. The price at which these coins are being sold is not that much and the market is also not that big ( proof coins are not mobile phones). So why will the Chinese people take that much trouble of sending fake proof coins over the Himalayas? Last time i checked, this forum is for grown ups.

[Navaneeth]

It's not about the jeopardizing the economy, its about fooling collectors like you and me. Fake coins are playing the major role and for some coins, its very difficult to identify even a from an expertized numismatist.

Many people sell these fake coins as original UNC or Proof sets and grab money from innocent people. 

Example: 1000 Rupees fake coins at $3, This gets replaced from Proof sets or sold as proof/unc coins for Rs 1500 - Rs 2000 online. https://bit.ly/2R5YhJn

Some of the greedy mint officials also sharing the originals which are getting faked. Till now the Shri Jagganath Nabakelebara coin hasn't opened for booking from Kolkata Mint, But already has it on many online platforms.

[Figleaf]

Last time i checked, this forum is for grown ups.

Personal attacks are not allowed here.

Whether proofs are legal tender or not is irrelevant. The fakes are meant to deceive collectors, not to be spent instead of genuine coins. Even if the proofs are sold at a low price, the profit margin is large and the risk practically zero. Chinese fakes can be found on the internet, offered as fakes, so the retail distribution risk is for the re-seller. In general, Chinese fakes are meant to defraud collectors. The only exceptions I know of are the current Chinese coins they fabricate (serves the Chinese government right for tolerating a fake coin industry) and plastic tokens for use in music events in European countries.

Peter

[Rabi_R]

Personal attacks are not allowed here.


Peter

Extremely sorry for that. Actually, i couldn't find out a better way to express my feeling when i found a open invitation( along with an email id) for coin grading, in a public forum, from some one whose level of expertise is not known to me.

Sorry once again.