Author Topic: A french pattern  (Read 324 times)

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Offline ZYV

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A french pattern
« on: September 10, 2018, 08:37:07 PM »
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: A french pattern
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2018, 08:36:14 AM »
I don't see an error in the legend, or is the apostrophe missing? I am disturbed by the spacing of the legend, though. See it now. Missing I. That's not a filthy die problem. This is a fake.

It's listed by KM as Pn5. Signed by Raymond Joly, my favourite French coin designer. Of the five patterns KM shows, his is the most accomplished and cliché-free human portrait as well as the cleanest reverse. TFP.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline ZYV

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Re: A french pattern
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2018, 08:14:39 AM »
Thank you for the interest, but I don't think that this is a fake. ;)
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline Figleaf

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Re: A french pattern
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2018, 09:18:25 AM »
Well, there should have been an apostrophe between D and E and an I between S and O. You could explain the missing apostrophe as "dirty die", though even that is difficult for a short pattern run, but there is no other way to explain the missing I than "fake". Raymond Joly engraved dies directly on steel and he was far to literate and accomplished to make such bad mistakes.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline ZYV

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Re: A french pattern
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 09:25:45 AM »
If you want to make a fake - you'll copy an original die without missing letters.
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline Figleaf

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Re: A french pattern
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 09:54:10 AM »
That's like saying that burglars wouldn't leave fingerprints. It's too easy for the police. Rather, it's the other way around. It is practically impossible that Jolie would make such mistakes just as it is practically impossible that more than one die was used to produce patterns. Since the images on the net have a correct legend, the piece you show must be a fake.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: A french pattern
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 10:55:04 AM »
The L in JOLY is also missing its horizontal bar - it reads JOIY.

Offline ZYV

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Re: A french pattern
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2018, 03:57:10 PM »
That's like saying that burglars wouldn't leave fingerprints. It's too easy for the police. Rather, it's the other way around. It is practically impossible that Jolie would make such mistakes just as it is practically impossible that more than one die was used to produce patterns. Since the images on the net have a correct legend, the piece you show must be a fake.
Dear Peter, you do not give facts, but your general considerations.
Fact is: the coin has all the features of the production of the Paris Mint in late 1950-th.
F.e. - on the picture. 
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru