Author Topic: Pre-euro to euro design continuity  (Read 1633 times)

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Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #105 on: September 12, 2018, 07:46:04 PM »
Hmm, I see way too many sets there. The Sede Vacante set should not have been issued - OK, at least according to the "spirit" of the law - it became explicit later. And the change from the portrait of Pope Francis to his personal seal came way too early. Wait 15 years? Pah, we're the Vatican, we can ignore the rules and get away with that ...

You may say that all this does not really belong here ;) but it shows how difficult the change from the lira to the euro must have been for the Vatican, at least coin wise. In the lira years, they used to issue a set - usually seven denominations from L.10 to L.1000 - every year, and usually with new designs for each denomination and year. Well, that is gone, and the hype around the first Vatican euro coins is now gone too. The Vatican could have used eight different euro designs, but for some reason did not do that. The first set with Francis was at least somewhat encouraging, but now we are back to "all the same".

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #106 on: September 12, 2018, 08:11:22 PM »
Yes, the Vatican is too much of an anomaly in the modern world. It deserves to be bulldozed. Admittedly, some of the numismatic portraits were well done. But that's all.

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #107 on: September 12, 2018, 08:17:30 PM »
So, this topic has seen a long journey through the countries of the euro zone, but now it has come to an end. I have certainly learned a few things along the way. My thanks to all who participated and in particular to Christian.

I am not sure whether it is relevant here, but we have not discussed the structure of the common sides. Some said that those bronze and yellow coins were too reminiscent of Germany's pre-euro coinage. Perhaps Christian, or any other euro fans, could enlighten us about the decisions that went into the common designs, as well as the physical structure and properties of the euro coinage.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #108 on: September 13, 2018, 12:15:20 AM »
Now whether the following is relevant here I don't know, but why not add it. Let's start with ancient history. ;)

In December 1995, the European Council at its meeting in Madrid decided that the name of the currency should be "euro". In October 1996 the sub-unit was named "cent". Also in those years, the EU set up a "Mint directors working group for the technical study of the European single coinage system" which ultimately suggested the eight coin denominations.

As for the designs, in 1996 there were design competitions for the common sides in most EU countries. How those were organized was up to each member state. Among the criteria was the idea that the digits should be easily visible and recognizable. The themes that the artists could choose from were Famous Europeans, Architecture and Abstract Design. Each proposal should cover all eight denominations.

36 proposals were submitted, experts were asked about the technical "doability", and in March 1997 a jury of art, design, numismatics, consumer etc. representatives chose the nine best. (The plaster models required for the presentation, by the way, were made by this gentleman.)

Then 2,000 people across the EU were asked what design they preferred. One series got more than 60% of the votes. The Ecofin Council on 8 June 1997 selected or confirmed the winning series, and a week later this winner - Luc Luycx - was announced at a Council meeting in Amsterdam.

The designs initially came with latent images for the €1 and €2 coins; that idea was dropped later. A few months later, Luycx came up with modified versions of his designs. For example, instead of all characters on the cent coins having the same height - see Luycx's original design below - , the EURO part was made smaller, and the C became bigger, to emphasize that the name of the unit is "cent" and not "euro cent" . Also, various geographic issues (hey, our xyz island is not on the map! etc.) were fixed.

In what phase the decision about the composition of the coins was made, I don't know; probably at a fairly early stage. The "copper look" is fairly common for low denomination coins anyway. The overall nickel exposition for example should be low, hence the decision to use Nordic Gold for the mid-range coins. And the €1 and €2 coins were to be bimetallic. The actual specifications however - sizes, denominations, composition - were officially decided upon in May 1998.

Right afterwards, the first mints (Pessac/FR, then Munich/DE, Hamburg/DE, Brussels/BE, etc.) started producing the coins. However, a few changes to the specifications - edge of the 10 and 50 cent coins, weight of the 50 ct piece - were made in February 1999. Bummer. 8)

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #109 on: September 13, 2018, 12:43:43 AM »
Thank you for that explanation, Christian.

36 proposals were submitted, experts were asked about the technical "doability", and in March 1997 a jury of art, design, numismatics, consumer etc. representatives chose the nine best. The plaster models required for the presentation, by the way, were made by this gentleman.

Geoffrey Colley! I never knew that.

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instead of all characters on the cent coins having the same height, the EURO part was made smaller, and the C became bigger, to emphasize that the name of the unit is "cent" and not "euro cent".



The prototype model, above.

Now see the actual issued version, below.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #110 on: September 13, 2018, 12:11:15 PM »
Geoffrey Colley! I never knew that.

Quite possibly because in this case he did not create the designs but "only" the models that he got. But I thought this would be a nice tidbit in this context ...

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Now see the actual issued version, below.

That map is actually the newer (2007-) version. In fact, some criticized Luycx's first version (minted as from 1999) as it would have to be updated every time the euro area gets a new member. (The other eight designs in the final round did not have that "issue".) Well, the current map is there to stay until Turkey or Iceland join the currency uni--errm, until the continental drift makes it necessary to redraw it. ;D

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #111 on: September 13, 2018, 12:40:59 PM »


Euro set - common side.



In my topic Design structure of the euro sets, I analysed the design structure of each national side and assigned each to a different category or type. Looking at the design structure of the common side, I can identify it as a Type 3a, where each tier of denominations has its own unique design. And in fact, twelve euro sets have used a Type 3a structure for their national side - by far the most popular structure, then

Type 3a.

Tier 1.  a a a
Tier 2.  b b b
Tier 3.  c c

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #112 on: September 13, 2018, 02:49:53 PM »
Just a quick link to show that several other "finalists" actually had eight different designs:
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=22497.0

(The "Euro Coins Genesis" exhibition toured Europe in 2005/2006. At some locations the 9 x 8 coin designs were combined with the "rejected" note designs, in some cases the coin designs submitted in the first round were added.)

As this topic is about continuity, I started checking where we had maps of the issuing country on pre-euro coins before. Spain had one on the 2 pesetas coin minted in 1982/1984, and France had one on the 10 francs coin (mid-70s to mid-80s) ...

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #113 on: September 13, 2018, 05:44:07 PM »
As this topic is about continuity, I started checking where we had maps of the issuing country on pre-euro coins before. Spain had one on the 2 pesetas coin minted in 1982/1984, and France had one on the 10 francs coin (mid-70s to mid-80s).

I'm surprised there weren't any more maps than that.

And as for the common side, the EU settled on the globe for the 1, 2 and 5 cent coins - clearly aspiring to world hegemony and global dominance.  :-X

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #114 on: September 13, 2018, 06:05:56 PM »
So how many Euroland countries had different designs on one side on all denominations Before Euro? (My bet is two - San Marino and Ireland).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #115 on: September 13, 2018, 06:10:39 PM »
So how many Euroland countries had different designs on one side on all denominations Before Euro? (My bet is two - San Marino and Ireland).

Peter

That's an interesting question. Another long subject for me to investigate. You're a danger to obsessives like me, you are. When will I ever find peace and rest?  :'(

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #116 on: September 13, 2018, 06:18:36 PM »
You are sacrificing your peace and rest to the good cause of keeping WoC interesting.

 :thankyou:

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #117 on: September 13, 2018, 08:18:34 PM »
I'm surprised there weren't any more maps than that.

Just have not had the time to check. Italy comes to mind - they even had a map of Europe on the 1000 lire (1997-2001) coin. The one that, in the first version, had a few wrong border lines. ;)

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And as for the common side, the EU settled on the globe for the 1, 2 and 5 cent coins - clearly aspiring to world hegemony and global dominance.  :-X

Waitwaitwait. The theme of those low denomination coins is "Europe in the World", not "Europe First" or "Europa über alles". :) That is why parts of Africa and Asia are depicted, but Europe is "highlighted" (relief), see here.

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #118 on: September 14, 2018, 06:16:16 PM »
Italy comes to mind - they even had a map of Europe on the 1000 lire (1997-2001) coin. The one that, in the first version, had a few wrong border lines.





Italy, 1000 lire, 1997.



See also: The Globe on Coins.