Author Topic: Pre-euro to euro design continuity  (Read 7284 times)

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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2018, 11:31:35 AM »
As for the Austrian flowers, the edelweiss (2 cent) was on the 1 schilling circulation coin, but the other two are new as far as I know.

Apparently the gentian appeared on the reverse of the zinc 10 Groschen coin of 1947-9.

Quote
The buildings: The Stephansdom (10 cent) can also be found on a circulating 20 schilling commem from 1997, the Belvedere (20 ct) was on a 25 schilling silver collector coin from 1968, and the Secession building was on a 50 schilling coin in 1997. The latter was a bimetallic "circulating" commem but did not circulate a lot ...

Thanks, I will revisit this post later and attach images.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2018, 11:34:20 AM »
Dante (€2) was featured on a 500 lire silver coin in 1965, and the Castel del Monte (1 cent) ... that is a little weird. :) In 1988 Italy issued a 500 lire silver coin dedicated to the 40th anniversary of the constitution. It shows a variety of the Italia Turrita but with the castle on her head. Admittedly I am not so familiar with Italian collector coins.

Thank you, I will revisit this post later and attach images.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2018, 11:56:55 AM »
Next on the list to investigate:

Luxembourg
Malta
Monaco

Any thoughts, anyone?
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Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2018, 02:11:11 PM »
In one of the other euro design topics I mentioned that there are subtle differences between the Estonian maps. Looked that up again - the €2 coin shows the islands of Vaindloo and Nootamaa which are not displayed on the other denominations.

While we are at maps, when Lembit Lõhmus originally presented his designs in 2007, they showed Estonia in its pre-WW2 borders. Russia protested, and the designs were modified. However, when the coins were actually issued in 2011, some people still objected. This time the "shape" of the border was basically OK but a tiny little bit too far east (or whatever). The Estonian government argued that such minimal differences are merely artistic license issues, and apparently that was the end of the "dispute" ...

Christian

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2018, 02:23:21 PM »
Luxembourg's euro circulation coins by and large continue the tradition; they feature the head of state. Both Charlotte (grand duchess until 1964) and Jean (her successor) preferred the country name in French - Luxembourg - while Henri uses Luxembourgish - Lëtzebuerg - on the circulation coins. And while Henri is depicted on each and every coin, his name does not show on the eight circulation types. That used to be different before ...

By the way, Jean abdicated in 2000 but did not have euro coins minted with his effigy. And apart from a coronation commem in 2000, Henri did not have any frang/franc coins made.

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2018, 11:57:31 PM »
While we are at maps, when Lembit Lõhmus originally presented his designs in 2007, they showed Estonia in its pre-WW2 borders. Russia protested, and the designs were modified.

So Russia - or the Soviet Union back then - even stole parts of Estonia and Latvia too. I never knew that. I knew they had stolen parts of Poland, Germany, Slovakia and Romania (the stolen parts of those two went to Ukraine). How about Belarus - was part of it given to Russia. I know Stalin gave parts of Poland to Lithuania, Belarus and maybe Ukraine.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 04:54:08 PM by <k> »
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Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2018, 01:23:42 AM »
"Stole"? Annexations, reparations etc. have always been popular among those who win a war.

Guess that the Soviet Union, once it got Estonia back from Nazi Germany in 1944, wanted to control and maybe punish by making part of the territory Russian, but also by moving many Russians to the Estonian SSR. Finland also lost part of its territory (the city of Vyborg for example). Such border changes or territory thefts, as you may call them, happened in the West too, both after WW1 and WW2. Anyway, the point is that the map on the actual Estonian euro and cent coins is basically drawn accurately ...

As for the country "indicators" on the circulation (and the commemorative €2) coins, see the following list.

Andorra
circ/comm: ANDORRA

Austria
circ: none (but flag)
comm: REPUBLIK ÖSTERREICH

Belgium
circ: BE since 2008
comm: BE is also used on many €2 commems; some have the three country name versions; one (2006) had B

Cyprus
circ/comm: ΚΥΠΡΟΣ KIBRIS

Estonia
circ/comm: EESTI

Finland
circ: FI since 2007 (also SUOMI FINLAND on the €2 edge since 1999)
comm: FINLAND (2005), otherwise FI or SUOMI FINLAND

France
circ: RF
comm: usually RF, sometimes REPUBLIQUE FRANÇAISE

Germany
circ: none
comm: BUNDESREPUBLIK DEUTSCHLAND until 2009, then D (full country name on the common issues)

Greece
circ: none, but Greek characters (and ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗ ΔΗΜΟΚΡΑΤΙΑ on the €2 edge)
comm: ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗ ΔΗΜΟΚΡΑΤΙΑ

Ireland
circ/comm: éire

Italy
circ: RI
comm: RI (common issues: REPUBBLICA ITALIANA)

Latvia
circ: LATVIJA (1-50 ct), LATVIJAS REPUBLIKA (€1, €2)
comm: LV or LATVIJA

Lithuania
circ/comm: LIETUVA

Luxembourg
circ: LËTZEBUERG
comm: sometimes LËTZEBUERG, sometimes LUXEMBOURG
(Jean's accession anniversary 2014: none)

Malta
circ/comm: MALTA

Monaco
circ/comm: MONACO

Netherlands
circ/comm: (KONING/IN DER) NEDERLANDEN
(common issue 2007): KONINKRIJK DER NEDERLANDEN
(c.i. 2009/2012/2015): NEDERLAND

Portugal
circ: PORTUGAL (two times)
comm: PORTUGAL (except anniversary of the republic 2010: REPÚBLICA PORTUGUESA)

San Marino
circ/comm: SAN MARINO

Slovakia
circ/comm: SLOVENSKO

Slovenia
circ: SLOVENIJA
comm: SLOVENIJA (except independence anniversary 2016: REPUBLIKA SLOVENIJA)

Spain
circ/comm: ESPAÑA

Vatican
circ/comm: CITTÀ DEL VATICANO

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2018, 10:13:47 AM »
"Stole"? Annexations, reparations etc. have always been popular among those who win a war.

Guess that the Soviet Union, once it got Estonia back from Nazi Germany in 1944, wanted to control and maybe punish by making part of the territory Russian, but also by moving many Russians to the Estonian SSR. Finland also lost part of its territory (the city of Vyborg for example).

Yes, I remember the Finnish episode and the unprovoked Soviet war against Finland in 1940. Stalin was a particularly brutal man, of course. The little countries were just in the way and got badly treated.

That list is excellent and should ideally go in euro basics, if Bimat is OK with that - unless it's already there.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2018, 05:46:01 PM »
Next, Malta. This is a Type 3 set, according to my classification. Each tier of denominations has a common design, with a maximum of three coins sharing the same design on the national side. I think there is not much to say here. Over to our resident cultural expert.  :)
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Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2018, 06:24:43 PM »
What would be a symbol that most people think of when they hear Malta? Quite possibly the Maltese Cross - and yet that was not on the list of designs for the national side first. Or indirectly only ... In Malta they had a public vote, in two stages, about the euro coin designs. This is, in alphabetical order, the list of themes that the government suggested:

Allegoric Representation of Malta
Baptism of Christ sculpture
Fort St Angelo
Ggantija Temples
Great Siege Monument
Malta's Coat of Arms
Map of the Maltese Islands
Mdina Skyline
Mnajdra Temples
Portico of the Auberge de Castille
Valletta Fortifications
Xaghra Stone Circle

I attached an image of the "Allegoric Representation" (named Melita) which was also on pre-euro Maltese banknotes. Note how she wears a Maltese Cross ...

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2018, 06:30:30 PM »
Thank you!

As for continuity, see below





Malta, 2 mils, 1972.





Common pre-euro obverse design.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2018, 06:32:26 PM »
Next, Monaco. Any thoughts?
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Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2018, 06:39:58 PM »
Hey, I wasn't done with Malta yet! ;) But yes, you are right, there is quite a bit of continuity. Apart from the two you posted, the 5 cents coin from 1972 to 1982 had a prehistoric structure similar to the Mnajdra temple: an altar from nearby Ħaġar Qim.

In that design vote, people could also add suggestions - and while "Melita" was not that popular, many wanted to see the Maltese cross (which by itself had not been on the list) on a coin. So in the second voting phase, that got 15,658 votes, the CoA had 11,383 votes, and the temples 8,900 votes.

Christian

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2018, 06:52:51 PM »
As for Monaco, the knight from the Grimaldi seal (10-20-50 ct until 2004) was on the 10 francs coin before (roughly 1990-2000). Albert's mirrored A monogram is new of course, but Rainier had a mirrored R before.

Christian

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2018, 07:54:51 PM »
In that design vote, people could also add suggestions - and while "Melita" was not that popular, many wanted to see the Maltese cross (which by itself had not been on the list) on a coin. So in the second voting phase, that got 15,658 votes, the CoA had 11,383 votes, and the temples 8,900 votes.

The 1972 set (with mils, etc.) was superb. and the next series was pretty good. The euro designs are not inspiring, though, and the ancient temple design is very poor.
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