Author Topic: Pre-euro to euro design continuity  (Read 4749 times)

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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2018, 01:34:32 PM »

Italy.



I know little about modern Italian coinage. Which of the standard euro designs are variations - or straight copies - of designs that appeared on EITHER Italian pre-euro collector coins OR Italian pre-euro circulation coins?

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2018, 02:07:25 PM »

Latvia: a Type 3a set.



All these current euro designs have been used in almost identical form on pre-euro Latvian designs.

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2018, 02:09:48 PM »

Lithuania: a Type 1 set.

I believe that the knight was used in that exact form on some pre-euro Lithuanian coins. Do you agree?

Offline hertfordian

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2018, 07:39:13 PM »
Finally, this tree design does look very familiar. Can somebody place it for me, with regard to the pre-euro coins?

I think it was first used on the silver 100 Franc coins which appeared in the 1980s (I seem to recall the first one was in 1982 and was for the Pantheon).

These were considerably smaller than their predecessors - the splendid 40mm+ 50 Franc coins.
Ian
UK

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2018, 09:47:46 PM »
Thanks, hertfordian. I had to expend considerable energy to find an image, though, since you didn't provide one, so I'm afraid I'll have to levy a fee - an eleventy shilling piece by the end of the week, or your name's Worzel Gummidge.  >:D

Strangely, this tree does not look to me like the one I was thinking of. Maybe I even confused it with a German one.

Offline hertfordian

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2018, 10:05:23 PM »
How weird!  I have got that coin in my collection but haven't looked at it for ages.

I'd have said that the design was identical to the Euro one until I saw your picture (Call me Worzel) and I realised how un-alike it actually is!

Funny how the memory can play tricks on one but I put that down to having hit the old half-century yesterday!

Ian
Ian
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2018, 10:14:11 PM »
Well, belated happy birthday, Worzel.  :D  It could just be the Mandela effect, of course.  ;)

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2018, 11:08:25 PM »
Was that a requirement of the European Central Bank, since the monogram and the date interrupted the stars on the earlier coins?

The ECB does not have anything to do with the euro coins, except that it needs to be notified about the issue volume. At some point the EU legislators (Council, Commission, Parliament) decided that the Stars of Europe need to be arranged like on the European Flag. Single minor design elements may still go from the pill into the ring, but apart from that the ring shows the stars and nothing else.

In my opinion, rearranging the stars should have been a job for the reverse (common side) where they are shown as well. Then we would actually have one common side and one entirely country-specific side. But maybe somebody thinks that this would be confusing, don't know. Anyway, Belgium adapted their designs according to the new standards but before it was necessary to adapt them. Maybe they felt bad about the Belgian €2 commem from 2005 that shows Albert (BE) and Henri (LU) without referring to any issuing country. :)

Christian

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2018, 11:20:46 PM »
So far, this thread has looked only at designs as in pictures. However, its title is ambiguous enough to include continuity of the design of pre-and post euro series. In other threads, <k> presented his analysis of euro coin series, from all the same design to all different designs with a number of variations in-between. You can do the same thing for the pre-euro series and see if there is continuity there. I bet there is.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2018, 11:29:58 PM »
Here I would like to backtrack to ask about the architectural designs on the standard euro coins of Andorra and Austria. Had they been used before any commemorative pre-euro or euro collector coins?

Don't know about Andorra; have indeed been there but always used francs, pesetas or euros. :) As for the Austrian flowers, the edelweiss (2 cent) was on the 1 schilling circulation coin, but the other two are new as far as I know. The buildings: The Stephansdom (10 cent) can also be found on a circulating 20 schilling commem from 1997, the Belvedere (20 ct) was on a 25 schilling silver collector coin from 1968, and the Secession building was on a 50 schilling coin in 1997. The latter was a bimetallic "circulating" commem but did not circulate a lot ...

Christian
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 09:14:15 PM by <k> »

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2018, 12:00:45 AM »
Finally, this tree design does look very familiar. Can somebody place it for me, with regard to the pre-euro coins?

That was not on any pre-euro circulation coin, I think. Maybe on a collector coin? (Edit: Ah yes, see above. ;) ) Then again, the hexagon as another symbol of the country has been on franc coins before.

As for Marianne, well, the association of French mayors picks a new model every few years, for the busts that are displayed in city halls. A list is here. But the Marianne used for the coins, or for the government website for example, is not based on these. :)

The euro sower, so to say, was designed by Laurent Jorio. But he was humble enough to refer to the original designer - the coins say "L. JORIO d'ap. O.ROTY" ...

Christian
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 12:22:37 AM by chrisild »

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2018, 12:20:32 AM »
The Brandeburg Gate appeared on several pre-euro collector coins but never on the pre-euro circulation coins.

If you look at the coins issued by the Federal Republic of Germany, the Brandenburg Gate showed up only one time - and that was in 1991, after the Eastern states (former GDR) joined the Federal Republic. :)  Simple reason - the gate was in East Berlin. The GDR did in fact use it on the 5 M circulation coins.

Christian
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 08:41:13 PM by <k> »

Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2018, 12:47:10 AM »
Which of the standard euro designs are variations - or straight copies - of designs that appeared on EITHER Italian pre-euro collector coins OR Italian pre-euro circulation coins?

None as far as I can tell. Dante (€2) was featured on a 500 lire silver coin in 1965, and the Castel del Monte (1 cent) ... that is a little weird. :) In 1988 Italy issued a 500 lire silver coin dedicated to the 40th anniversary of the constitution. It shows a variety of the Italia Turrita but with the castle on her head. Admittedly I am not so familiar with Italian collector coins.

Christian
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 08:41:01 PM by <k> »

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2018, 03:09:03 AM »
So far, this thread has looked only at designs as in pictures. However, its title is ambiguous enough to include continuity of the design of pre-and post euro series. In other threads, <k> presented his analysis of euro coin series, from all the same design to all different designs with a number of variations in-between. You can do the same thing for the pre-euro series and see if there is continuity there. I bet there is.

Peter


Estonia.

I didn't understand your point at first, but I think I do now. In some cases there will be a match, e.g. Estonia used one common design for the pre-euro and a different one for the euro set (was the deer coin a commemorative?). See above and below. Some non-euro and pre-euro sets changed their design composition over time, though: the UK had Britannia on all its bronze coins before 1936, but from 1937 the farthing featured a wren and the halfpenny a ship, but Britannia remained on the penny.

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2018, 11:08:21 AM »
The ECB does not have anything to do with the euro coins, except that it needs to be notified about the issue volume. At some point the EU legislators (Council, Commission, Parliament) decided that the Stars of Europe need to be arranged like on the European Flag. Single minor design elements may still go from the pill into the ring, but apart from that the ring shows the stars and nothing else.

I'm surprised that anything is allowed into the ring, to disturb the standard look of the stars.

Quote
In my opinion, rearranging the stars should have been a job for the reverse (common side) where they are shown as well. Then we would actually have one common side and one entirely country-specific side. But maybe somebody thinks that this would be confusing, don't know.

I agree with you. However, given the large variety of national sides, maybe the stars around each national design reassure people in the euro zone that these are actually euros, without turning over the coin.

Quote
Anyway, Belgium adapted their designs according to the new standards but before it was necessary to adapt them. Maybe they felt bad about the Belgian €2 commem from 2005 that shows Albert (BE) and Henri (LU) without referring to any issuing country. :)

How each country indicates itself on the national side by such marks is another factor that I would like to compile a list of in this topic. It's yet another factor that hasn't been standardised.