Author Topic: Pre-euro to euro design continuity  (Read 7283 times)

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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2018, 05:35:46 PM »
The two people come from the earlier paper money. Here is Mozart on the 5000 Schilling note issued/used in the 1990s. And here we have Bertha von Suttner on a 1000 Schilling note from the 70s and early 80s.

That makes it all very clear. Thank you! Prosit will now complain that Mozart is facing the wrong way. Well, it must just be a mirror image. Frau von Suttner didn't dare look in the mirror, I fear, in case people found out her horrific secret.  :o
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 11:42:41 AM by <k> »
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2018, 05:42:44 PM »
The national sides include the denominations. They are already to be seen on the common side. I believe that Austria has been asked to remove them from the national side.

When these coins were first made and issued, they complied with European law. That was modified later, so the Austrians (and their German neighbors) will have to change the designs - either when they issue newly designed circulation coins anyway, or within the next 43 years. :) That 20 June 2062 deadline is based on the average lifetime of a coin, I think.

I see, to avoid unnecessary demonetisation of the affected coins.

Another thing worth exploring: how does each euro zone country indicate the country of origin of its coins, if at all? It would be worthwhile compiling a list. Andorra simply includes the country name on the national side of each coin - that's just for starters. But how do the other countries do it?
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2018, 06:32:44 PM »
Now we come to Belgium. Albert II was King when the country switched to the euro. King Phillipe has appeared on the coins since 2014.

Below you see the euro and pre-euro portraits of Albert. Apart from the spectacles, they are rather similar, though the euro portrait lacks that strange dividing line. Pre-euro, the Belgians circulated two versions of each coins, one to cater for the Flemings, who speak Dutch, and one for the Francophone Walloons. There are a few native German speakers in Belgium, but I suppose they had to pretend that the Dutch was also German. After all, between Dutch and Deutsch, there isn't always a great difference.

The euro legend abbreviated the country name simply to "BE" on all the coins, so that worked for all the linguistic communities - no more linguistic variants. The pre-euro coins did not include the crown or Albert's monogram, so I do not know why these changes were made.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 06:49:51 PM by <k> »
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Offline chrisild

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2018, 07:39:31 PM »
Albert on euro coins is a little more complicated. ;) The sculptor Jan Alfons Keustermans designed the national sides of the Belgian euro and cent coins. When Belgium decided to move the monogram from the ring to the pill, and to add the BE country indicator, they scanned the original portrait (with a flatbed scanner according to Gerhard Schön ...) and then tried to somehow calculate the relief from the lighter and darker parts.

€2 dated 2000€2 dated 2008

So the 2008 obverse is usually called the work of Luc Luycx, the artist who also designed the common sides of the euro and cent coins. Keustermans did not like the result (especially with regard to the hair and forehead), so the design was once again modified, and the 2009-2013 issues are his work again.

As for the languages, the two primary ones in Belgium are Dutch and French. German is spoken in a fairly small area only which is part of the Walloon region, and thus does not have the same legal status. Belgian euro coincards for example will usually come in a Dutch and a French version. Now the euro collector coins are actually trilingual; they will always say België (nl) - Belgique (fr) - Belgien (de) or Belgique - België - Belgien.

Christian
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 07:52:26 PM by chrisild »

Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2018, 10:26:40 PM »
When Belgium decided to move the monogram from the ring to the pill

Was that a requirement of the European Central Bank, since the monogram and the date interrupted the stars on the earlier coins?

Inevitably it took some time before the various glitches were noted on the national sides. Then there were moves towards greater standardisation of some of the common elements on the national sides.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2018, 10:30:50 PM »
Now the euro collector coins are actually trilingual; they will always say België (nl) - Belgique (fr) - Belgien (de) or Belgique - België - Belgien.

I never knew that. Example below.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2018, 10:35:49 PM »
Here I would like to backtrack to ask about the architectural designs on the standard euro coins of Andorra and Austria. Had they been used before any commemorative pre-euro or euro collector coins? I know you are very knowledgeable about Austrian coins, and I believe you have visited Andorra. You also seem familiar with many European architectural landmarks.

I will occasionally revisit countries I have dealt with earlier in this topic, in order to tease out all the interesting information.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2018, 11:06:04 PM »
Next Cyprus. The mouflon has appeared on pre-euro circulation and collector coins alike. It also appears on the lowest tier of the euro demoninations.

My thanks to Eleni and Kostas Mouflon, who sent me a photo of themselves on their wedding day in 2017. They also won that year's Nobel Prize for Best Mouflon Couple.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2018, 11:17:57 PM »












Cyprus has always included an ancient ship design on its circulation coins since 1955. A new design was created for the second tier of euro denominations.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2018, 11:25:22 PM »
Estonia next. Their very disappointing offering of a map of the country did not figure in any way on their pre-euro designs of the 20th century. Correct me if I am wrong.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 09:20:41 AM by <k> »
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2018, 11:40:39 PM »

Finland.




Finland, 1 markka, 1996.



Just one of the many numismatic variations of Finland's heraldic lion emblem.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2018, 11:47:01 PM »






Large birds appeared on Finnish pre-euro collector coins, years before the issue of the 1 euro coin.

What about the 2 euro? Was there a similar pre-euro flower design?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 11:58:43 PM by <k> »
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2018, 11:52:49 AM »
There are still questions to be resolved, and you may skip back through this approximately alphabetical list of countries, if you wish, to add  observations and details. However, for now I shall move on to France.




France.



France has a Type 3 set, according to my classification. Here we have Marianne, in a new version. Gusev mentioned that all the Mariannes have been modelled on real French women, often beautiful actresses. He was going to make a list of these, but so far he hasn't done it. Hint, hint!  ;) Finally, this tree design does look very familiar. Can somebody place it for me, with regard to the pre-euro coins?

Then there is "The Sower" - Louis Oscar Roty's famous "La Semeuse" - looking similar to the version on several pre-euro coins.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2018, 12:02:59 PM »


German euro coins.







Pre-euro German coins.



So the bottom and top tier of German euro designs are new variants of old themes from the pre-euro circulation coins. The Brandeburg Gate appeared on several pre-euro collector coins but never on the pre-euro circulation coins. Are there any more interesting details to add?
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Offline <k>

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Re: Pre-euro to euro design continuity
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2018, 12:13:16 PM »

Obverse designs of the predecimal Irish coinage.



Percy Metcalfe's harp was retained at the obverse of the decimal coins, of course. It was adopted as the single design for the Irish national side on the euro. The Irish set is a Type 1 set, with only one common design for the national side on all denominations. Is there anything more to be said?




Common national design for the Irish euro.
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