Author Topic: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54  (Read 415 times)

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Offline mrbadexample

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Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« on: August 14, 2018, 03:47:11 PM »
Hello all,

Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54, KM#5.

Does it exist?

Does anyone have one?

Thanks,
MBE

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 05:16:37 PM »
Looked at a number of specimen on the net and discovered two variants that apparently occur regularly: date misaligned (1 too low, 4 too high) and date aligned.

Interestingly, I also found two mints. Museums Victoria says their specimen (well aligned) was minted by Henry Jay & Co., Birmingham, while a French dealer points at Heaton, Birmingham for a specimen with misaligned date. Misunderstanding (no H on the coin) or are we on to something?

No trace of a 5, though.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline andyg

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 06:09:39 PM »
I've never understood the Krause classifications for these -
#6 is 1864 but #5 is the mystery 1864/54 overdate plus all other dates to 1911,
yet 1864 has more in common with 1868 and 1874 than 1885-1911.

According to Coincraft's catalogue (1999);
1864 were struck by Henry Toy & Co. (Birmingham) over the period 1864/65 (all dated 1864)
1868 and 1874 were struck by Partridge & Co. (Birmingham)
1885 to 1911 were of course struck by Ralph Heaton and thus carry the customary mintmark.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 06:46:51 PM by andyg »
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 07:16:55 PM »
1864 were struck by Henry Toy & Co. (Birmingham) over the period 1864/65 (all dated 1864)

That 1864/65 period may explain the 1864/54 "overdate". I wish I were just kidding. ::)

Henry Toy or Henry Jay? That is the question, quoth Hamlet.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 07:45:07 PM »
I think the French dealer guessed.  ::)

So is there a difference between KM#5 and KM#6?

I'm convinced the 1864/1854 as described in SCWC doesn't exist.  :-\

Offline andyg

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 08:03:23 PM »
The overdate may exist, but all 1864's should have the same KM#.
Krause types really should follow the mints though.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline andyg

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 08:22:22 PM »
Henry Toy or Henry Jay? That is the question, quoth Hamlet.

Henry Toy is more likely;
Toy, Henry & Co, Lamp Manufactures
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline malj1

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2018, 12:14:50 AM »
Henry Toy is correct.

A.L.T. McCammon the authority on Channel Island coins doesn't mention this piece.

Here is his complete entry for 1864
Malcolm
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Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2018, 01:32:13 AM »
Thanks Mal. What reference is that please?

Looks like I can safely stop looking for one of these.  ::)

Offline malj1

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 01:42:11 AM »
Currencies of the Anglo-Norman Isles. A.L.T. McCammon 1984

Currencies of the Anglo-Norman Isles Vol.ii. A.L.T. McCammon 1993
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.

Offline mrbadexample

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2018, 09:06:37 PM »
Is volume II the supplement Mal? Just trying to find a copy at a sensible price.  :)

Offline malj1

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Re: Guernsey 4 doubles 1864/54
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2018, 12:46:25 AM »
Yes a few updates and mostly listing the later tokens which he hadn't bothered with previously.
Malcolm
Have a look at  my tokens and my banknotes.