Author Topic: Tibetan gaden tangka  (Read 320 times)

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Offline Malikalkamil

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Tibetan gaden tangka
« on: August 03, 2018, 02:48:58 PM »
Hello everyone,
last year I purchased this coin in an italian auction and I tried to classify it using Standard Catalog of World Coins (44th edition, 2017). I also read an information sheet published on line by Scott Semans about these coins. I think right classification is Y#13E.2, but I'm not sure, because these coins are very hard to understand, especially for a newbie like me!
For this reason I would like to ask for your help, I hope someone of the experts in this coinage can correct (or confirm, if it's right) my classification!
Furthermore, weight is 5,42 grams and diameter almost 28 mm.

Thanks a lot in advance for your answers!

                Giuseppe
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 08:04:10 AM by Gusev »

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2018, 05:33:45 PM »
Our WoC member Gusev will be able to give you all the details
Vic

Offline Gusev

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2018, 08:19:20 AM »
According to the catalog Krause it will be Y# E13.1.
According to Rhodes's classification E (i).
Type Y# E13.2 refers to machine struck.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Malikalkamil

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2018, 12:59:16 PM »
Thanks a lot Gusev!
I almost had guessed classification, but I was wrong at the end  ;D
I didn't find anywhere information about the machine struck of the type Y#E13.2, my Krause doesn't report it.
Fortunately there is the forum!

Thanks again!  :thankyou:

     Giuseppe

Offline Gusev

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2018, 03:59:46 PM »
Additional Information.

Mint presumably Dod-pal.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Malikalkamil

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2018, 11:38:18 PM »
Gusev, I wouldn't like to abuse your patience, but could I ask you some additional information?
1) I read in the catalog of Spink and son auction "Tibetan coins from the Nick Rhodes collection" (august 2013) that machine struck of gaden tangkas began around 1928......but mintage of type E ended around 1907 (according to Rhodes)! How is it possible? Was my bad english to betray me and I didn't understand? Could you explain to me this matter?
2) Is there a study which estimated silver percentage in these coins?
3) could you suggest to me some text on these coins available online?

Thanks again for your politeness, I hope I didn't annoy you with all these questions!

           Giuseppe

Offline Gusev

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2018, 10:02:59 AM »
1. Since the late 19th century, Tibet had machine struck with water or man-powered.
See example Ga-den Tangka (machine struck), type F, KM Y# F13.3, (1912).  Dr Karl Gabrisch Collection.

Since 1928 in Tibet, coins have been minted with electric power machines.

Wolfgang Bertsch in the description of the catalog Spink writes:

"From 1840 until 1932 Tibet’s coins were struck in different mints located in or near Lhasa by hand and later with water or man-powered locally made machines. Among the most important mints in the early 20th Century were one known by the name ґdod dpal (las khung) located in Shol, below the Potala, and one located about 12 kilometers north/northeast of Lhasa in the Dode (dog bde or dog de) valley (Rhodes, 1978). Another important mint was located in Trabshi (4 kilometers north of Lhasa on the way to Sera monastery). This mint was modernised in the early 1930s, and all the machinery from the other mints was subsequently transferred to this establishment, which operated as the only Tibetan Government mint from 1932 onwards. It had the official name Trabshi Lotru Lekhung (grwa bzhi glog ґkhrul las khung “Trabshi electric machine factory”). Coins were struck by machines imported from England and from British India, first on an experimental basis in 1928 and 1929 and then on a large scale from 1932 to 1938 and again from 1946 to 1954. The electric power for these machines was supplied by a hydro-electric power plant in the Dode valley which was set up between 1927 and 1928 with equipment imported from England in 1924."

2 & 3. You can read the article by Rhodes in English or Russian here ( Reply #5 & 6):
http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,4774.0.html
.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2018, 03:29:06 PM »
Great fun info, Gusev. Is the locally made machinery still around, e.g. in a museum? They would be prize pieces of industrial archeology.

@Malikalkamil: perhaps superfluous, but the key word is "machine struck". Machine struck coins were produced from around 1928. Older coins were hand struck. See also this thread.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Gusev

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2018, 07:11:45 PM »
Thank you Peter, magnificent review.

Maybe the definition of "machine struck" is divided by types of energy as follows:
1. "Primitive machine struck" using energy of water, animals.
2. "Classical machine struck" using energy of steam, electricity, gasoline, etc.
"Those at the top of the mountain didn't fall there."- Marcus Washling.

Offline Malikalkamil

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Re: Tibetan gaden tangka
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 03:35:58 PM »
Thanks a lot Gusev and Figleaf!
I misinterpreted passage underlined by Gusev, therefore I confused "water or man-powered locally made machines" with the later electrical machines!
So, to sum up, some Ga-den tangkas struck before 1928, like type Y# F13.3 posted by Gusev or type Y# E13.2 similar to my coin, have been struck with rudimentary machines, and others were hammered, it's right?

Figleaf, I read with great interest your post on the evolution of the minting tecnologies, and it roused to me a thought: what a fascinating place is Tibet, which adopted these innovations only in the XX century! A land out of time!

Thanks again to both of you.

               Giuseppe