Author Topic: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint  (Read 521 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EWC

  • Meritorious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 807
Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« on: March 29, 2017, 10:31:12 AM »
Fascinating - thanks!

Offline eurocoin

  • Indexer
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 286
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2017, 05:34:47 PM »
Fascinating - thanks!

It certainly is a fascinating story and I am sure that once the trial begins later this year or in 2018 even more interesting information will be revealed. All of the details can be found spread all over the internet but only on WoC the full story can be found in 1 place :)

Offline onecenter

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2017, 06:30:43 PM »
Note: All of the information above comes from the media and from research by other numismatists. People who would like to be credited in this topic can send me a private message.



To be continued.
Wholeheartedly agree!  Hopefully the new 12-sided pound coin will be successful as it begins to circulate this week.
Mark

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29 171
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2017, 10:37:01 PM »
Very interesting story. Thank you.

The mint inter alia dealt with pension funds for the bullion and with other European mints for the blanks they produced.

Since I am an ex-pension fund character, this one caught my attention. A Dutch pension fund would not physically hold bullion or any other commodity. If they want a commodities position, they'll use cash futures. They'd probably get into trouble with the state supervisor for physically holding commodities, as it would be a serious security risk.

Such restrictions apparently do not exist in the US, as I know of one ERISA-covered pension fund that physically held gold (and dabbled in coins, which was their undoing.) Not sure if UK funds can take physical delivery of commodities and even if they can whether they would be willing to do so. Will ask around. Anyway, my point is that it is unlikely that the pension funds in question were Dutch, but if they were, that would (at least in my eyes) be a scandal.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline andyg

  • Global Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 452
  • DERBYS UK
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2017, 11:18:59 PM »
A few more articles from the BBC,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22612487
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7144549.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8396553.stm
about various other counterfeiting gangs that have been caught over the years.

plus an article from back in 2008 saying 1 coin in every 50 pounds was fake,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7628930.stm
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline africancoins

  • Meritorious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 869
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2017, 12:18:43 AM »
Interesting.

I am surprised they took so long to get around to deciding that they would change the specification of the 1 Pound coin.

You say...

>>For over a decade counterfeiters have been minting fake 1 pound coins.<<

I was seeing them in change over 15 years ago - not just the horrible lead pieces but also the pieces of the right colour that the public would struggle to notice as fake.

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline eurocoin

  • Indexer
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 286
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 03:49:32 PM »
I have seen that recently, people close to main suspect Patrick O. have re-registered the former websites of the company. It seems they bought the domains back from the curator which handles the bankruptcy of ECM. Wether that also means that ECM will re-open, I do not know.

Offline eurocoin

  • Indexer
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 286
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2018, 08:10:25 PM »
I had been looking forward to this case for years but unfortunately I was unable to attend this week, about which I am absolutely gutted.

Mintmaster Patrick O. pleaded not guilty. According to him he had no involvement in the production of the counterfeit coins nor did he know about it. Instead he claimed his acquiantance Wilfred M. produced the counterfeits. According to Patrick he allowed Wilfred to make use of his machinery, this as Wilfred allowed Patrick to make use of his 5 warehouses. Wilfred was also active in the minting world amongst other things as producer of Age-coins. Witnesses and other suspects too testified that Patrick had no knowledge of the production of counterfeit coins.

Wilfred himself, who in the past is convicted for membership of a criminal organisation and the production of synthetical drugs, was not present during the trial which took a full week. Although the court said they only roughly know where Wilfred likely lives (Rio de Janeiro), they claimed he was made aware of the case. On the last day of the trial yesterday, Wilfred himself informed Patrick's lawyer Jan-Hein Kuijpers that he did not know the trial had began. Wilfred M. also provided Jan-Hein Kuijpers a full confession.

Although the witnesses all point at Wilfred, the public prosecutor also sees a lot of evidence against Patrick. According to him Patrick has done the financial side of the coin counterfeiting scam while Wilfred did all of the production. Patrick's company ECM for example ordered the specific alloy of the 1 pound coin in Turkey. Patrick himself paid the import duties. The public prosecutor asked for a prison sentence of 403 days for Patrick O. as well as 120 hours of community service. The prison sentence is equal to the time he was in custody.

The decision of the court will follow within 2 weeks.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 04:02:23 PM by eurocoin »

Offline EWC

  • Meritorious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 807
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 07:38:25 AM »
The public prosecutor asked for a prison sentence of 403 days for Patrick O. as well as 120 hours of community service. The prison sentence is equal to the time he was in custody.

Interesting to recall the sort of position taken by Isaac Newton in a similar situation

Offline eurocoin

  • Indexer
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3 286
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2019, 06:00:30 PM »
A documentary about the European Central Mint that was broadcasted on Dutch television some time ago can now be found below (English subtitles available).


Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20 053
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2019, 12:02:03 PM »

Offline chrisild

  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8 437
  • NW DE EU
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2019, 09:30:52 PM »
Thanks for posting that video!

Christian

Offline Arminius

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1 178
  • Varus - may i show you our forest?
    • Arminius-Numismatics
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2019, 10:25:38 PM »
Wow - for a coin collector this stuff is a quite more thrilling than our boring TV crime series !!

(series also used as a plural i expect?)

 :)

Offline EWC

  • Meritorious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 807
Re: Comments on: Counterfeiting ring European Central Mint
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2019, 08:27:27 AM »
one and two years?

Why no extradition?

:-(