Author Topic: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan  (Read 2710 times)

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Offline THCoins

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2018, 01:52:54 PM »
Also i will be following the discussion with interest !

Anthony

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2018, 08:10:50 AM »
Just another example demonstrating CNG attitude towards tooled coins. In this case it is not fakes, but cleaned and artificially patinated coins, further presented by CNG "experts" as "Near VF, dark brown patina..". Below are photos before and after cleaning and patination:

Offline EWC

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2018, 10:20:28 AM »
Just another example demonstrating CNG attitude towards tooled coins. In this case it is not fakes, but cleaned and artificially patinated coins, further presented by CNG "experts" as "Near VF, dark brown patina..". Below are photos before and after cleaning and patination:

I do not understand this mail.  Were they green when offered by CNG or brown?  If brown (as you state) - where were they re-patinated green, and by who? 

Rob T

Offline THCoins

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2018, 11:17:16 AM »
I think they were offered brown by CNG. It would be unlikely that they would sell coins with clear bronze disease spots untreated. Also the surface aspect of the brown coins is very much like some other suspicious coins that have been offerered through them in the recent past.
The consigner may have been right in treating these coins, but this manner of "preservation" is also not to my liking.

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2018, 01:15:11 PM »
I examined these 2 coins before they ended up at CNG. There was no trace of bronze disease, just dry sandy deposits, typical for Zabulistan finds. Identical pattern of artificial "brown" patina on numerous Central Asian copper coins offered by CNG, in my opinion, strongly suggests they are being treated by CNG itself, and not by consignors (unless there is one single consigner for all these coins, both tooled fakes and authentic, which is highly unlikely).

Offline THCoins

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2018, 01:33:43 PM »
If these were just stable green deposits the treatment would almost become tooling and was unneccessary.
For the Indo-Scythian and Indo-Greek bronzes offered by CNG i have reasons to believe that these largely come from one single source. Don't know for the Central Asian category as a whole.

Offline EWC

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2018, 01:39:12 PM »
I examined these 2 coins before they ended up at CNG. There was no trace of bronze disease, just dry sandy deposits, typical for Zabulistan finds. Identical pattern of artificial "brown" patina on numerous Central Asian copper coins offered by CNG, in my opinion, strongly suggests they are being treated by CNG itself, and not by consignors (unless there is one single consigner for all these coins, both tooled fakes and authentic, which is highly unlikely).

OK thanks.  Actually in the past I have been paid - not to clean coins - but rather to give an opinion about whether they should be cleaned.  I have to say in this case I would  have advised against it.  Re- Patinating coins after cleaning is entirely normal and has been going on for centuries.  That is how so many lovely Roman coppers got to look the way they do.  It is not from the soil.  However, I agree that in this case the job was badly done.  But all this seems to have nothing at all to do with "tooling".

Rob T