Author Topic: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan  (Read 4274 times)

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Offline Desibot

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2019, 12:36:38 PM »
Primarily, combination of the following:
- "sandy" deposits partially covering the surfaces - spotted only around high relief features of coin's legend
- form of letters in coin's legend
- black or dark green layer of tar-like "patination"
Secondary indicator – coin’s origin. Majority of tooled fakes I handled are from Pakistan.
Last but not least – turns out that combination «Indo-Greek/Bactrian Greek copper+newly discovered type» requires extensive scrutiny of the coin.
And let’s be honest – items with purposely reconstructed or altered features and legends, to represent the most sought after or unpublished types of Indo-Greek or Bactrian AE’s are not “authentic historical artefacts”, but forgeries/fakes intended to hoodwink the collectors’ community..
BTW, here is another one:
acsearch.info - Auction research


the coins have been confirmed by Bopearachchi
So is he wrong ?

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2019, 12:54:13 PM »
Which exact types of coins you mean were confirmed by Bopearachchi?
This flood of tooled fakes from Pakistan occurred rather recently, well after Bopearachchi's works on Greco-Bactrian and Indo-Greek Coins were published

Offline Desibot

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2019, 01:16:58 PM »
Couple more of recently auctioned tooled fakes:
acsearch.info - Auction research
acsearch.info - Auction research


Hi bactrianumis

Refering to these 2 coins are confirmed as genuine by
Bopearachchi

Offline THCoins

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2019, 01:51:26 PM »
Quote
Refering to these 2 coins are confirmed as genuine by Bopearachchi

And that is greatly in contrast to the evaluation of world-wide collectors as expressed in the saleprices:
- The extremely rare huge Menander piece was sold for 264 Dollars.
- The two specimen of Telephos were sold for 216 Dollar. Also, these were sold on a "SOLD AS IS" condition, without any warranty.

That can not just be explained by these types becoming common overnight because of new finds.

Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2019, 04:01:05 PM »

Hi bactrianumis

Refering to these 2 coins are confirmed as genuine by
Bopearachchi

Yes, he is wrong

Just curious, does Mr Bopearachchi think this following coin is also genuine?

Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Indo-Greek Kingdoms, AE diobol, Menander I

Online Figleaf

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2019, 04:51:32 PM »
Maybe I am missing something, but I only see Bopearachchi's name on those pages as the author of the catalogue they are referring to. It seems that it's NOT Bopearachchi, but the auction house that claims them to be genuine.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Desibot

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2019, 05:39:01 PM »
Hi

Figleaf the 2 coins were part of my collection which i swapped for some islamic coins and ended up at Auction
When i had them they were checked by Bopearachchi personally in hand
When he visited me to check my collection.

So according to  Bactrianumis

The experts at Heritage and Bopearachchi who checked the coins in hand have got it wrong.

 




Offline BACTRIANUMIS

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2019, 06:11:37 PM »
...the 2 coins were part of my collection..
sorry Desibot, but imho it only contributes to the idea that those 2 coins are far from being genuine, given the avalanche of fakes you posted on this forum for "identification"

Offline Desibot

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2019, 06:24:54 PM »
sorry Desibot, but imho it only contributes to the idea that those 2 coins are far from being genuine, given the avalanche of fakes you posted on this forum for "identification"

Im no expert on coins if i did post coins it was to help identify or get opinion on them from members with far more experience so if i have posted an avalanche of fake coins to help me in identifying them does that mean i personally associated to them and peddling them and now put into some slot with a tag.




   

Online Figleaf

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2019, 06:37:07 PM »
No. Absolutely not. Since you have come up with them, it is quite obvious that you wanted the truth. You are only to be commended for that.

However, it does throw an awkward light upon the people you buy from. The number of fakes you have come up with is far larger than normal. We have tried to help you and I remember having advised you at least once to change your sources. At least one of them is taking advantage of you.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Pabitra

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2019, 03:36:44 AM »
The region suffers from large scale fakes to the extent that Govt of India has issued an advisory warning.

See

India struggles against fakes - Numismatic NewsNumismatic News

Offline EWC

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2019, 09:14:37 AM »
In case of interest, here is a cautionary tale about fakes, snap decisions, and auction results

(PDF) Yorkshire detectorists discover Proculus coin | Mark Fox - Academia.edu

(PDF) Ancient coin marks out own path | Mark Fox - Academia.edu

Offline Oesho

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2019, 01:50:59 PM »
Quote
The region suffers from large scale fakes to the extent that Govt of India has issued an advisory warning.

See

India struggles against fakes - Numismatic NewsNumismatic News

If there is one coin-type in India, not at all worth to be copied it would be the Shivarai or Chhatrapati paisa. It was the principal copper coin of the Marathas and minted over a long period at many mints and therefore subject to an incredible number variations in spelling of the words on them, the weight, size and ornamentations. Besides the hundreds of varieties there will be also several contemporary imitations, so-called Kachcha paisa. It must be an extremely experienced numismatist who may be able to distinguish between original issues and imitations or fakes. In the article it is mentioned “The Numismatic Society of India, founded in 1910, has been recommended by the agency as a place where experts can check shivrai coins now appearing in the market for authenticity.”
This institution is not even able to prevent absolute nonsense to be published in their own Journal, how would they be able to come forward with a numismatic expert of which there is none among their staff, and to hire expertize they may not have the funds.

It is a funny article deprived of much practical knowledge of this particular subject and the Archaeological and Numismatic Institutions in India.

Offline THCoins

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2019, 03:10:07 PM »
This gives an extra dimension to the term "Fake news".

Offline EWC

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Re: Tooled forgeries from Pakistan
« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2019, 01:12:06 PM »
This gives an extra dimension to the term "Fake news".

Not sure I agree.  I certainly recall discussing the fact that most reporting of specialist topics in the press was in error, in 1973, long before that phrase became current

This whole idea of "Fake News" seems to me flawed.  Reporters, and many others, frequently make the all too human error of telling people what they want to hear, rather than the truth. 

Criticism of that tenancy seems easy enough to find in Greek and Roman text, arguably in ancient  Indian and Chinese text too.  Recent discussion of “Fake News” often seems to me to be itself, by implication, fake news.

Personally, I try to avoind the phrase.

Rob T