Author Topic: Please help to identification copper 1,59 g  (Read 522 times)

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Offline jsalgado

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Please help to identification copper 1,59 g
« on: February 21, 2018, 01:22:37 AM »
Many thanks for your help





Offline Paris

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Re: Please help to identification copper 1,59 g
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 01:15:08 PM »
Hi,

Coin for Milano. I can't say more with my office's computer.

Offline Paris

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Re: Please help to identification copper 1,59 g
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 01:29:39 PM »
Finally I found it.
Parpagliola, Filippo II or III of Spain for Milano
http://www.rhinocoins.com/ITALY/MILANO/FIL2.HTML
http://www.rhinocoins.com/ITALY/MILANO/FIL3.HTML

Both Filippo II and Filippo III issued this type, but for the first it was 1 g and 17 mm, for the second it was 2,2 g and 20 mm. Yours is probably Filippo III and could have been "rogné" (sorry, I do not know the word in English but sure another member will be able to translate).
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 01:45:27 PM by Paris »

Offline jkk

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Re: Please help to identification copper 1,59 g
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 05:23:41 PM »
Yours is probably Filippo III and could have been "rogné" (sorry, I do not know the word in English but sure another member will be able to translate).

I would render it in English as: Clipped, trimmed; diminished in some way. With a coin, I would think it refers to a situation where there is significant metal loss going beyond the normal effects of wear.
Jonathan

Offline Paris

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Re: Please help to identification copper 1,59 g
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 05:31:09 PM »
Yes, thanks. A part of the metal has been cut after the coin has been put into circulation. This has been made for keeping a part of the metal (it is the reason why it has been made only with gold or silver coins). Usually it was an unlegal action, but a French king is famous for having created an office in his palace for doing this!

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Please help to identification copper 1,59 g
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 05:36:26 PM »
Great id! See also the entry for "clipping" in our dictionary of numismatic terms.

I am sure the king was Filippo in Milano and though he was Felipe in Spain, English speakers probably thought of him as Philip. It's a complicated world. My granddaughter was wondering why everybody couldn't speak French (her mother tongues are French and Russian and she is starting to pick up Dutch).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline jkk

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Re: Please help to identification copper 1,59 g
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 05:39:04 PM »
Yes, thanks. A part of the metal has been cut after the coin has been put into circulation. This has been made for keeping a part of the metal (it is the reason why it has been made only with gold or silver coins). Usually it was an unlegal action, but a French king is famous for having created an office in his palace for doing this!

'Clipped' would definitely be the term in English. Essentially it's metal theft given that its net impact is to debase the coin's intrinsic value. There's an expression in English, 'not worth a clipped groat,' that has survived some centuries at least in memory and literary usage if not common speech. Only Anglophone numismatists, or British people, are likely to know what a groat was: a silver four-penny coin last minted in the mid-1800s. There's a groat (pronounced like 'goat' but with the added R) reference in Monty Python that is probably the sole reason non-coin-collecting Americans have even heard the term.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 06:30:08 PM by jkk »
Jonathan

Offline jsalgado

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Re: Please help to identification copper 1,59 g
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 06:27:26 PM »
jkk, Paris and Peter, many thanks for your help.

Filipe III (1598-1631
Parpagliola Milano
MEDIOLANI D
PROVIDENTIA
Very bad grade of conservation