Author Topic: Circulation  (Read 225 times)

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Offline Figleaf

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Circulation
« on: February 05, 2018, 03:42:30 PM »
We spend time and energy to determine if a coin is "in circulation". That's logical. Many collectors use it as one demarcation line of what they want to spend money on. However, I get the impression that "in circulation" means different things to different people. This thread is meant to bring out those differences, not to tell anyone what (not) to collect.

One extreme is a coin widely used for payments. There can be no doubt that it is in circulation. Examples are the 5, 10, 20, 50 eurocent and 1 and 2 euro coins of the regular EU countries. I use regular here as a shortcut expression to exclude San Marino, Vatican, Monaco and Andorra. Another example is the 5, 10 and 25 cent coins of the US

The opposite extreme is any piece issued above its face value. There can be no doubt that it is not in circulation. Examples are gold pieces in EUR or USD denominations, a host (but not all) of the EUR and USD silver issues and fantasies and the Indian reservation pieces denominated in USD.

That leaves a grey area. Here are some typical types within that area.

1. Not generally accepted any more. One and two cents never circulated in Finland and an increasing number of EU countries doesn't use them any more. The US 50 cent and dollars are often rejected; the cent not offered or thrown away.
2. Coins of micro-states that are seldom or never seen in circulation there.
3. Pieces that don't fit into the system. Quarter and 1-1/2 euros and other odd denominations are unlikely to circulate in significant quantity.
4. Pieces issued at face but not seen in circulation. Think of the handful of EU member-states that issued commemorative 5 and 10 euro pieces and occasionally higher values in a range of metals. They can circulate in theory, but don't circulate in practice.
5. Pieces only available packaged. The seller doesn't even suggest they are meant for circulation.

My personal borderline is somewhere in 2. I have a Vatican 50 eurocent with and without portrait. As far as I am concerned, that is a complete type collection of Vatican euro coins. I ran into them at a reasonable price in a souvenir and coin shop in the Vatican. Otherwise, I could have lived without them. Where is your borderline?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: Circulation
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2018, 06:46:55 PM »

That leaves a grey area. Here are some typical types within that area.

1. Not generally accepted any more. One and two cents never circulated in Finland and an increasing number of EU countries doesn't use them any more. The US 50 cent and dollars are often rejected; the cent not offered or thrown away.
2. Coins of micro-states that are seldom or never seen in circulation there.
3. Pieces that don't fit into the system. Quarter and 1-1/2 euros and other odd denominations are unlikely to circulate in significant quantity.
4. Pieces issued at face but not seen in circulation. Think of the handful of EU member-states that issued commemorative 5 and 10 euro pieces and occasionally higher values in a range of metals. They can circulate in theory, but don't circulate in practice.
5. Pieces only available packaged. The seller doesn't even suggest they are meant for circulation.

My personal borderline is somewhere in 2. I have a Vatican 50 eurocent with and without portrait. As far as I am concerned, that is a complete type collection of Vatican euro coins. I ran into them at a reasonable price in a souvenir and coin shop in the Vatican. Otherwise, I could have lived without them. Where is your borderline?

Personally of your grey areas, I would include all of 1 and some of 2 and 4.

Regarding 2, my criterion would be whether the coins have characteristics that make it possible that they circulate in the supposed state of issue. That they don't may depend on wars or other factors outside the control of the coins' creators (e.g. Somalia), and that isn't a reason for discounting them IMV. But they must bear some relation to reality. They must have the physical characteristics of normally used coins - e.g. made of normal coinage base metals with a diameter between c. 16 and 30 mm and weight up to c. 12-13 g. They must also carry a denomination that makes sense in the context of the currency in question - a "$1" coin in a country where there are 10,000 local dollars to the USD is clearly not a circulation issue. Those criteria, I realise, will capture a range of probably pseudo issues but my philosophy is "better in than out" rather than "if in doubt, leave it out".  :)

Regarding 4: Your (and my) Vatican 50c coins come into this category, as do Finnish, Dutch, Irish etc. 1c and 2c coins, various UK 50ps and others. These are all made to the same specifications as coins that undoubtedly are in use, and could therefore in practice as well as legally be spent in the relevant territory. I've found enough UK coins with "impossible" dates in circulation myself to know that this does happen. I'd have no hesitation in including any of these in "circulation coins".

More of a grey area are the pre-1997 UK £2, US halves and dollars, the monometallic brass Polish 2 złote series and so on. These are available at face but are significantly different from other coins or notes that definitely circulate for the same amount. The UK and Polish circulation coins are lighter bimetallics, and in the US the dollar is generally a note. But here again, I've had both halves and dollars in change in the US, and monometallic £2s in the UK, so they undoubtedly do see some circulation. I don't know about the Polish series. But again, here I'd tend to include them.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Circulation
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2018, 08:33:53 PM »
There are about 4 catagories of coins I think of as circulation issues.

1. Coins that circulate now or did circulate in the past.
2. Coins that were intended to circulate but donít or didnít circulate in the past.
3. Coins that were intended to circulate but only circulated marginally.
4. Coins in sets that are simply packaged coins of 1, 2 or 3 above regardless of the price of the set.

I don't include tokens that passed as money.

Dale


Offline Pabitra

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Re: Circulation
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 04:10:52 AM »
I don't know about the Polish series. But again, here I'd tend to include them.

The Polish 2 Zlote mono metallic brass coins never circulated. They were available at National Bank at face value, long after the years of issue except for the three issues related to Pope John Paul II.
After having issued 280 of them, Poland finally switched over to bimetallic 5 Zloty commems with regular specifications, with restriction of two per year.

Offline Kopper Ken

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Re: Circulation
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 03:16:58 AM »
I apply the test that "if they are able to be circulated or redeemed," I'll collect them. 

So can you spend a bunch of Finnish 1euro cent or 2 euro cent coins to purchase something in any EU country, or redeem them in any Euro country bank? 

I have never had anyone in the US not (double negative) accept a 50 cent (half dollar) coin or a dollar coin.  They can be spent.  In fact I CRH ( coin roll hunt) these and all US denominations, putting the excess back in circulation.  Just found a nice Harper's Ferry 25c double die ;D.

If I can get a 5 euro coin for face value and spend it, then it is in my view collectible as a circulating piece.  I do not pay premiums for US $1 (silver/gold) coins.  I consider them medals.

Nice topic...maybe my opinion will broaden/change.  Keep it going :like:

KK

Offline MORGENSTERNN

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Re: Circulation
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 11:10:00 AM »
Hello,

The link with history is very important for me so my definition will be coins (or token) that really circulate...

... And here a list of coin like items that not circulate :

- Restrike made for collector
- Proof and precious metal issues
- Presentation and Nazarana coinage
- Trial strike, unadopted designs, essay
- Series not really put in circulation (Japan occupation coinage made for Indonesia)
- Commemorative coinage not made for circulation (for example, in the '80 the commemorative French metal base 1, 2, 5, or 10 Francs circulate while the silver 100 Francs coins didn't)
- all the "fantasy" coinage, including not existing countries, not existing denominations...

About the fake coins there is also circulation fakes (contemporary fakes) and not circulation fakes (forgeries)

But anyone can collect what it likes and some not circulating items are fun to get



« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 11:27:09 AM by MORGENSTERNN »